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The doghouse

If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

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Original poster

Am I being selfish? - Operation on old dog

31 replies

MothershipG · 04/05/2023 09:21

Yesterday I found out that my 14 year old Affenpinscher has a mass, probably cancerous, on his spleen.

He is booked in next week to have his spleen removed.
The vet said it is not an especially complicated, but quite a major, surgery.
If we don't go ahead we will have to let him go as it is affecting him and it could rupture.

Am I being selfish to put an old dog thorough major surgery so I get to possibly have another couple of years of inevitably declining health with him?

I only want to do what is best for my dog but it's so hard to even contemplate letting him go.

OP posts:

Newpeep · 04/05/2023 09:47

It's a personal decision.

I wouldn't do it as cancerous spleen masses almost always spread. So you are looking at weeks/months rather than years. My vet rarely operates on them even in a young dog or cat if they suspect or know they are malignant.

I am a big advocate of quality over quantity with dogs. They live for the moment.

Original poster

MothershipG · 04/05/2023 10:25

Thanks @Newpeep
We don't know for certain that it is cancer but the vet said in a dog of his age it is likely.

I just want to do what's best, but it's so hard to make a decision when there are no guarantees.

OP posts:

3ormoredogs · 04/05/2023 11:31

I’ve worked in veterinary for many years and I wouldn’t do a splenectomy on my dogs unless they were young. The chances of malignancy are high, most have already spread and the recovery can be tough.

It’s a very personal choice though, I’ve known a few dogs do well afterwards but the majority don’t have much long left post surgery.

iamme21 · 04/05/2023 11:57

I know a 13 year old dog who had this done about a month ago and he is doing really well, has a new lease of life!

Original poster

MothershipG · 04/05/2023 12:04

Thanks for the replies, I think I need to speak to the vet again, they didn't mention at all the poor prognosis if it is cancerous, which I have seen from a quick google.

OP posts:

Newpeep · 04/05/2023 12:55

MothershipG · 04/05/2023 12:04

Thanks for the replies, I think I need to speak to the vet again, they didn't mention at all the poor prognosis if it is cancerous, which I have seen from a quick google.

That’s a good plan. Our vets are very honest. They will offer x treatment but offer facts on prognosis.

Our dog died of dementia but our cat had lymphoma which they thought was a spleen tumour before they scanned. They said that at 14 it was likely to be malignant and they could offer chemotherapy but it would buy us three months at best. They would not offer anything if they found it had spread as the prognosis was so poor and it wouldn’t have been in her best interests. Unsurprisingly we opted for palliative care (steroids and lots of spoiling) which they supported.

If you do decide not to operate then don’t leave it too long as a rupture is catastrophic.

Newpeep · 04/05/2023 12:56

To add, thinking of you. It’s so hard.

Sprig1 · 04/05/2023 13:02

Previous posters are right, the prognosis if it is cancer (v likely) is v poor. Our vet discovered likely spleen cancer in our 11yo lurcher when he was in for surgery for something else. We opted to put him to sleep on the operating table as survival rate was likely to be in the matter of weeks, even once spleen was removed.

Juststopit · 04/05/2023 13:29

I’m in the same dilemma with my dog - 14 years old and a large growth in his abdomen but otherwise fine. I have decided against surgery - he hates being away from me and will become quite distressed. I’ve decided to not go ahead with surgery - his quality of life is good and it’s not worth the risk and pain. Totally an individual decision though.

thequeenoftarts · 04/05/2023 13:49

I'm so sorry you have had this news, your poor dog.
Can I ask what is the age for an Affenpinscher to live to roughly. Thats usually my starting point for a decision, so is 14 middle aged,old, or ancient for his breed? What is your dogs quality of life like at the minute? Is he a frisky well able boy, or an old dog sleeping a lot and only getting up to urinate and eat? Again these answers would factor in my decision.

How are you paying? How much are you paying? Can you afford the surgery without getting into debt for it? Is he insured? Will ins company cover the surgery and aftercare?
I'm very sorry but again be honest with yourself and if your poor dog may only have weeks left is it worth putting him through a very major surgery for those last few weeks. (they are not questions you need to answer on here, just ask yourself them and you will know the answers in your own mind, you know your dog best)

It is okay to ask you vet these questions too. Has he had an ultrasound done? Is the vet confident that there are no other organs affected by the splenic mass? Have they offered pre anaesthetic bloods so you know of any issues prior to surgery? If not, please do get them done so you have all your ducks in a row and eyes open going into surgery.

Please also be prepared that once the vet starts to operate, and "sees" whats happening inside, there may be a call from them to tell you the tumour is very advanced and that you may need to go say goodbye there and then, without your dog ever coming off the operating table. Splenic masses/tumours are one of the unknown quantities in surgery, we never know what we are ging to find until we open up an animal. It really is a damned if you do/damned if you dont decision. I really wish you well no matter what you decide. If you go ahead I hope its successful and your dog recovers well. If you chose not to go ahead, thats ok too, enjoy the time you have left with your dog.

Original poster

MothershipG · 04/05/2023 13:56

Thanks @thequeenoftarts

14-16 about average for an Affen. My other 15 year old Affen is on his last legs.

My boy is miserable, it has definitely affected his behaviour, he can't stand the sight of my other dog who he has lived with & rubbed along with his whole life.

He had some bloods done & subsequent scans & x-rays which showed the mass. He also has a manageable heart murmur.

The money isn't an issue if he has a good chance of recovery.

So do I put him through the op & subsequent pain on the relatively small chance that the mass is benign? And realistically, he's an old boy, even if it is benign how well will he be? Back to himself?

This is so hard.

OP posts:

ChiefPearlClutcher · 04/05/2023 14:06

Hemangiosarcoma? We decided against aggressive treatment as, after a FULL workup, the specialist hospital vets discovered it had already spread to his lungs. Usually the tumour starts bleeding without you even realising it is there, the dog bleeds out (because the spleen is so vascular) and die fairly quickly and it is discovered on autopsy, so you are lucky to know now. I did not want our darling dog to suffer, he was already in DIC with v low platelets. The minute he started bleeding, we called the vet for euthanasia at home. We made the decision the day of diagnosis so it was just a waiting game. They gave us three months, we had 2. We loved him too much to have him scared and in pain.

May I ask if he has had a rabies vaccine recently?

Huge hugs to you. It’s been 5 months and I still cry most days for my best boy :(

Spanielsarepainless · 04/05/2023 14:07

My Lab was twelve when he had a vast spleen tumour removed and
he went on for another four years. If you leave it it will rupture and he'll die of internal bleeding and heart attack. You need to decide to either operate or PTS.

FearTheWankingDead · 04/05/2023 14:09

I would PTS.
You obviously love him to bits and have given him a good life. It would be the kindest thing so he doesn’t suffer.
Sometimes it’s an act of love. I know this is incredibly hard to decide.
Sending hugs to you and your dog.

Floralnomad · 04/05/2023 14:11

Our 13 yr old patterdale x has a node on his spleen , it was picked up during investigations into high blood pressure in January this year . We have decided to leave his spleen alone as I looked up the prognosis post op and decided it wasn’t worth putting him through the surgery . As it is he is on metacam and medication for his blood pressure and on the whole is fine . Considering that his prognosis as the OOH vet on NYD was very poor we’ve done well to get the time we’ve already had . What symptoms does your dog have @MothershipG .

schloss · 04/05/2023 14:13

If he is healthy enough for the vet to offer surgery then I would do it. I had an 11 year old dog have his spleen removed (for different reasons) and he made a full recovery and died age 13.

I do not like to see any dog suffer but I also take the view give them every chance possible. I wouldn't rush to put him to sleep now but if you are going to operate do it now, as others have said if the spleen ruptures that is not good.

Do not get yourself into the position where you forever regret you didn't give him the chance.

MeanderingOnTheNorfolkBroads · 04/05/2023 14:28

Having put our last boy through the trauma of treatment and a long recovery time, I'd never do it again (for certain conditions, in certain ages of dog).
So sorry to hear about your pup :(

Original poster

MothershipG · 04/05/2023 14:41

@Floralnomad
I've always had to keep a close eye on his weight but since Xmas he's lost weight got quite boney, while still eating the same, & his fur has got so thin & patchy, and also behavioural changes.

OP posts:

tealandteal · 04/05/2023 14:47

A suspected mass was found on a scan on my 10 year old spaniel. He had exploratory surgery and no cancer but 2 years later I regret putting him through that at his age. I know he is still here but it had such a massive affect on him, he didn’t understand, his wound didn’t heal properly. I would take a day or two, maybe do the dog’s favourite things, and then ask the vet to visit you, which is obviously not what I did.

coffeecupsandwaxmelts · 04/05/2023 14:53

Personally at that age and with that prognosis I would have him PTS.

Far better a day too soon than a day too late and I'd want my dogs' last days to be ones where he's still eating and drinking and relatively content with his life.

I'm so sorry for what you're going through

blobby10 · 04/05/2023 14:59

My 12 year old lab had glaucoma and had an eye removed - although she was happy and managed perfectly well with one eye, she lost her sparkle. Two years later she had the same issue in the other eye and the vet offered the same operation. We couldn't put her through the trauma again so she was PTS. Our other old girl was 14 when the vet discovered a lump in one of her teats - we didn't hesitate to say thanks but no thanks to an exploratory operation and lots of tests and she was PTS at home the next day.

Everyone is different but I felt that it was my duty as a dog owner to make the decision that was best for them - obviously I wanted them to get better and live forever but I also had to be realistic. I'm sorry but if your dog was mine then I wouldn't put him through the spleen removal

DoTrollsShitInTheThreads · 04/05/2023 15:00

I'm sorry as it's so hard for you, but I am a strong believer in letting go. Quick and painless for the dog is imo, the least you can do, if you love him.
Dogs don't need painful operations and miserable suffering. Vets do.

momtoboys · 04/05/2023 15:08

This is so hard. I'm sorry you are going through this. We have a 14 year old that we just adore. He is fine as of right now but I know some hard decisions are not too far off. I'll be thinking of you.

tsmainsqueeze · 04/05/2023 15:09

Vet nurse , same as previous nurse i too would not have surgery for this on my own dog , even a younger one than yours.
It's major surgery and after seeing it done many times over the years in my job in most cases it doesn't give them much extra time , sometimes just a few weeks.
I think it's sad for whatever time a beloved dog has left it is spent feeling miserable and incapacitated , better to pts with dignity and kindness.
I am very sorry i know how heartbreaking this is.

thequeenoftarts · 04/05/2023 15:17

@MothershipG

Its a tough decision no denying. Has the vet given you any hope for a full recovery? If you were to ask them outright, what would you do if this was your dog? Sometimes they will be honest and say no, if it were mine I would enjoy the time left. They have to be so careful not to sway an owner either way, but I find if you ask them directly is this a good decision to make for my pet, a lot will be frank with you and say yes or no.

Personally my opinion ( and it is only my opinion, bear in mind) is that no, I wouldn't do this to a dog of his age. If he makes it through surgery then he has a long recovery ahead of him, the 48 hours post surgery are incredibly tough on him, and he could still die post surgery.
If he were 8-10 or younger then yes, but for him to have maybe 6 -12 months more and to have 3 of those months recovering from a major surgery doesn't seem worth the pain to me. It's good he has had the bloods and scans/xrays done, but personally I would leave him alone and leave him live out his days until it's time to say goodbye on your terms rather than if he has to be pts on surgery table.

I have had a few dogs pts myself, and made a decision also not to pursue surgery on one, on very similar grounds to you ( too old, likely to die on table, aftercare awfully invasive for my own boy, not wanting to put fellow colleagues through telling me he had died on them).

It's very tough, it hurts like hell but I was able to think logically about the recovery period afterwards and realised how traumatic that particular surgery would have been for both of us and to this day I have never regretted my choice. I will be thinking of you whatever you decide x

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