Neutering dogs

[Spidey66]

I went to a Meet Up group yesterday for dog owners in a local wood. One of the group had a cute Minature Schnauzer, male dog of 18 months. Most of the time he was fine but he kept going after a female dog to the point they had to go to a different part of the woods. They weren't the owners of the dog and were just looking after it for the day. The Schnauzer still kept running away looking for this particular dog. We all went for a drink after and he was still going for her.

The Schnauzer owner acknowledged they had not had their dog had not been neutered despite no plans to breed from it, and the ones looking after the other dog admitted they thought she was about to come into season. As they weren't the owners, they weren't sure about the owners plans. The Schnauzer owner said he wouldn't do to his dog what he wouldn't do to himself and that was his reasoning!

Our dog is female and on the vets advice had her done after her first season. When she was on season she was a nightmare, couldn't let her off the lead and had to warn any owners coming near her in case they had an unneutered dog,

Unless you're planning to breed, why the hell would you not neuter your dog??

Always wondered the same. I have always had dogs, since I was a kid. Met a woman with a Spaniel dog in the next village park. She was complaining about bitches in season, said they should be "done", it was upsetting her dog. I asked, she said it would ruin his coat!!! I have got chatting to dog owners on walks and asked. Got told,'oh, well Freddy etc is so nice natured,he doesn't need to be done'. My vet on 25 years, said, unless you are breeding,so many implications for undoctored dogs/bitches,both mental and physical,they need to have it done. Seeing a lot more uncastrated dogs these days. Was going to add, changed my mind,as this is Mumsnet!!

The health benefits of spaying bitches, at an appropriate age, are a little more clear cut but it’s pretty equivocal for dogs. In the absence of behavioural problems specifically associated with being entire (and these are fewer than people think), there may not be good reason to castrate.

My dog is 11 months and around 27 kgs, so fairly large.
He's not yet been done, as I've seen that it's better to wait for larger dogs to be fully mature, so I'll wait until 18 months ish.
I will get him neutered because a) we don't plan to breed from him and b) surely it's the responsible thing to do? Would hate for him to accost an in season bitch and have it result in a pregnancy

Bigger breeds are better maturing before neutering.. both for physical health as their bones and joints take longer to mature, and also for emotional stability. Plus a nervous male dog may become more nervous minus testosterone.

We were advised to wait until our girl was at least two and had had a couple of seasons; which we did, but she was miserable during them so we had her spayed as soon as she was 2.

Vets used to advise neutering asap but now tend to be more cautious: in girls early spay can lead to incontinence as well.

Presumably a mini could be neutered earlier but it's not always clear cut... and neutering does affect the coats of some breeds (inc mine)

Totally agree that all dogs should be neutered if possible to prevent pyometra in girls and rampaging hormones in the boys, but there are good reasons to wait for the apporpriate time.

The health disadvantages of neutering a dog can actually outweigh the benefits. It can also have a negative impact on the dog's behaviour. The last two vets I've had have not been in favour of routine neutering.

Please can you cite a source that supports this view.

The Royal Veterinary College and every mainstream dog charity supports neutering.

The health benefits of neutering a dog are significant:

*Eliminates the risk of a dog developing testicular cancer - the second most prevalent tumour in male dogs

*Protects against a selection of prostate diseases seen regularly in unneutered dogs

*Prevents dogs from developing perineal hernias which are common in unneutered dogs.

This is aside from all the known behavioural improvements that can occur from neutering.

In the vast majority of cases neutering dogs is the responsible action to take.

My dog was a rescue (not from a centre, I rehomed him from an owner who could not look after him) so he was fully grown and entire when I got him. I was told it was a bit late to be getting him done and could exacerbate any behaviour issues towards and from other dogs.

Just to add, some years ago,we took on a rescue dog, from a well known organisation. She leaked urine,was told by the vet I used at that time,her bladder was damaged during spaying. This was said with no kind of examinations or tests. Fast forward my last border collie (who lived till 17) started leaking urine in her sleep firstly. Trip to vet I now use (25 years, involves an 80 mile round trip now,) said it was just hormonal,propalin for the rest of her life,no problems.

Whether or when to neuter is not as clear-cut as used to be thought. Hart, Hart, Thigpen and Willits, 'Assisting decision-making on age of neutering in 35 breeds of dog', 2020, is an open access article based on, iirc, the outcomes for 40k dogs. It looks at the risks of cancer, joint problems and spay incontinence by age of neuter across numerous popular breeds and gives advice on the earliest recommended age for neutering by breed and sex. Obviously it's not the last word, but it's a start.

It doesn't look at behaviour at all. IME (and this is only anecdata) early neuter can cause problems there, and letting the dog mature fully before buggering about with its hormones leads to a more stable adult dog. I want my dogs socially and mentally mature now before I neuter. You do though have to be alert to the risks of pyometra in bitches, but it's a case of weighing the risks.

Neutering may have clear health benefits (preventing cancers and pyometra) but when it comes to behaviour things aren't as clear cut.

Many vets are not advising that nervous and anxious dogs aren't neutered as the lack of testosterone can make things worse.

I should have said, the Hart et al article shows an increased risk of certain cancers and joint issues (and incontinence in bitches) if dogs of some breeds are neutered young. Later neuter is generally the recommendation for larger breeds.

It should be a fineable offence to keep unneutered dogs or cats. Unless you can prove you're a bona fide breeder. And all breeders should be licenced. Vote for me!!!

I understand early neutering can cause problems. We wanted our female dog done at 6 months as (in our heads) this was the right age and prior to her first season. However our vet said wait until after her first season as by then she would have all her correct levels of hormones, so we went with her advice.

I don't think I could cope with another season. She didn't bleed like some bitches do, but she was definitely flirting with all the boys! She was like "come on lads, I'm single and I'm ready to mingle!" Thankfully we seem to live in area where the vast majority of male dogs are neutered so they weren't interested!!! As soon as she was finished we were straight down the vets for her to be done.

It’s incredibly old fashioned just to neuter dogs, some dogs really don’t need to be neutered, it’s dependent on behaviour. Neutering dogs can cause huge behavioural issues in the wrong dog. Only chemical neutering should be allowed at first so any behavioural issues can be observed. There’s a good reason countries ban castration.

From what I've read (which admittedly isn't much) - neutering males is a bit more divisive than neutering females - something to do with the testosterone in males, and of course the issue of pyometra in females.

We're trying chemical castration first with AwkwardPup. He's quite submissive and both the vet and behaviourist suggested that we may see an increase in anxiety with castration.
We've had the implant nearly 6 months, and the best bit is that we can walk down the street without him marking every single post and tree - but we've also had a few occurrences of him showing fear around larger dogs and slight guarding of me/the pram if another dog jumps up at me/bounds over too excitedly.
We're going to let the implant wear off and see if that behaviour change reverses itself without it, before making a decision on full castration.

My dog doesn't need a big surgery to appease female dog owners.

He is terrified of the vets and I won't put him through that. His behaviour is fine and neutering will not improve him so why would I?

There are health benefits for cancer but the same is true for human males and we aren't neutering them.

My male isn't neutered, I have no reason to as his behaviour is fine. The risks outweighs the benefits in his case. They is negative behavioural issues that come with neutering males.

I also show him so couldn't neuter him even if I wanted to.

Bitches in season really shouldn't be walked. I would never take a bitch in season out.

It's not just breeding though that requires unneutered dogs, you can't show a dog that's been neutered unless you have some kind of medical exemption.

My male dogs are fine without any neutering.

They are working dogs and respond to one word commands. They don’t chase female dogs. They don’t even try to sniff them. Out for a walk on a lead they might have a sniff meet and greet if the other owner wants one or a play. But otherwise they leave the other dog alone. Luckily mine are intelligent and good working dogs.

Having had a dog years ago that died whilst being neutered - never ever again, it was unnecessary surgery. He became infected and died a week later having never returned from the vets. It was horrific. A completely healthy dog - dead.

So absolutely no unnecessary surgery in this house.

My dogs sleep with me- they are stroked daily and any lumps or bumps I notice immediately.

Testicular cancer in dogs is relatively unheard of and relatively easy to treat. Neutering raises the risk of bone cancers. There are many reasons why buggering around with hormones is not a good plan from effects on the immune system, behaviour, cancer increased risk in the spleen etc

I work in a veterinary surgery. Most of the clinical staff there agree that they probably wouldn't get their male dogs neutered in the traditional sense, rather some are doing chemical castration via an implant. Similar to human contraceptive implants for women that need to be changed regularly.

It's something to do with LH levels being 30 times higher in neutered dogs and the effects on the rest of their body, with a possible link to hyperthyroidism and lymphoma. The implant keeps the LH levels at normal levels.

https://www.akcchf.org/educational-resources/library/articles/exploring-how-spayneuter.html

I believe all dogs should be neutered but I would probably go with the implant if I could go back in time.

Bitches in season really shouldn't be walked. I would never take a bitch in season out.

While Maggie was a proper sod on heat, she would have been worse with no exercise. She's a border collie, and as they're a working breed they become very difficult if bored and unexercised. We just kept her on the lead and away from other dogs.

Bitches in season really shouldn't be walked. I would never take a bitch in season out.
What rubbish, I have 2 bitches and wouldn't dream of keeping them locked in when in season.

This. Also discussed this in depth with my vet and she does not recommend neutering dogs as there are definite cons.

Some daft hyperbole on this thread.