What would you do?

[crazymare20]

My old dog 11.5 years has damaged her crutiate ligament and surgery has been recommened. she is a German shepherd. She is insured so money is not a factor. What is worrying me is she is extremely aggressive with the vets, lovely family dog but she just falls apart at the vets. Getting her there is a military operation where she has to be restrained and sedated in the car park and I have to stay with her until she’s asleep and be back when she’s coming around and take her straight home.

I am worried about the aftercare, realistically it will be left to me and she won’t be able to receive anyway near the checks recommended. I won’t be able to take her to physio or hydrotherapy.

she also damaged the tendon in her front leg many years ago so that is weakened and she is now bracing her weight on three legs.

Her appetite has reduced since around January and the weight is slowly falling off and she is slowing down in general.

on a positive note her hips show very little arthritic changes or hip dysplasia and blood tests for organ function have come back really good so on the face of it she is a healthy dog with bad legs.

what would you do?

It's a balance, yes the operation will hopefully improve the physical health of your dog but will it be at the cost of their mental health.

I have a dog that has suffered mentally so many times from vet admissions that I totally 'get it'.

The only advice I can give is when you make the decision for your dog only you know how they will cope and honestly I am not sure which way I would go if it was my dog but would lean towards preserving his happiness over anything else.

This is my worry, taking her to vets knocks her up for days as she works herself up into such a mess. She had X-rays last week and when she came round she spent an hour just whining her time I left her side it was heart breaking.

It's horrible isn't it. We have to mute tv films when certain phones ring because something has associated fear with that sound after a vet visit. It's been a few years and we still haven't solved that and he is obviously scared of the sound.

Following as we may be in the same position with our 6 year old Maltese soon..he has shown some signs of luxating patella which may require a very painful op with a long recovery and he's a nervous anxious little chap who can't even cope getting in the car. His whole life consists of our house, the neighbours house and both large gardens and two very local walks as he's also sometimes reactive through nerves.
The thought of putting him through a very stressful painful op has me in tears already, he would just not cope. So far the vets have said to manage it with painkillers if and when he has a flare up

This might be too late now as she's an older girl, but does your vet offer any kind of support visits?

I have a very anxious dog at the vet who was basically listed as a agressive dog at our previous vet, they made her worse and so I swapped vet. New vet has done a couple of get to know you visits, where she goes and just sits and is cuddled and given treats for half an hour then comes home. She's going for her spay this week. After that she's going to a nurse clinic to be cuddled and given treats again so that she doesn't only remember that the vet does something mean. For every mean trip she does there she will go to at least once for a comfort visit.

For the recovery will any physio or vet come to you at home rather than you going there? Might your dog find that easier?

We tried all sorts when she was younger, been to all socialisation classes, I took her for friendly visits to vets which worked for a while and then she hurt her front leg and was in pain and it went backwards from there. When she is in pain and feels “vulnerable” she won’t allow anyone near her unless she knows them well. She tolerates me helping her when she’s in pain but I don’t know how she would manage having a stranger in the home when she’s in pain and expect her not to react. I wouldn’t want her to harm anyone.

@crazymare20 it's so hard isn't it? I think you have to trust your instincts. You know her best. Sending her positive vibes!

Desensitisation can work as long as you aren't forced into set backs.

No amount would have helped us when we were forced to hand them over without us during covid, the emergency operations which meant painful long admissions or the necessary but elective operations and assessments.

I just have a view that acute issues that have more pros than cons for mental health are done but anything chronic that is likely to involve weeks of recuperation and vet checks is something to balance especially with any issues that typically may arise in the other limb. Honestly I would be weighing up the same thing as you OP even though my dog is only 6.

Planned surgery should be much easier to manage with a vet phobic dog.

Has she had the diagnosis already? That is one big hurdle out of the way if so

If she is going in for cruciate surgery the worst bit will be the waiting for the surgery. My vets allowed me to have my dog outside until they needed to have the GA. They did not do anything to him until he was under GA.

After the surgery he was so high on drugs he was fine. There were very limited checkups and on both times the vet saw the dog in the carpark and just walked up and down to see how the leg was healing etc. A quick look at movement and how the wound was healing.

We did not have any physio but were given exercises to do at home so that is easily sorted.

I think cruciate surgery can sound very daunting but our situation was a dog that could only hobble , operation crate rest for a while but back home and pretty chilled and then back to normal pretty quickly. Was standing on the operated leg to wee on the second day.

11 is older and it does throw other issues into the mix. I guess it depends on how much pain they are in.

Sedation and GA can make some dogs whine afterwards that is pretty common.

I'm not sure I would put an 11.5 year old dog through that kind of surgery when it's going to be extra traumatic for her. Tbh, even without the vet issue I'm not sure I'd want to put my dog through surgery and a lengthy recuperation period that late in life.

i feel so bad for even considering putting her to sleep. I just wish she would help herself and stop being such a bad patient. I always said if she ever needed surgery or anything which involved repeat vet visits I wouldn’t do it but now I am faced with the decision I am dithering.

I'd get the surgery. It worked for us eventually. We didn't do physio.

When our aggressive ddog had cancer surgery it was muzzle every time. Sedation and we led her to the waiting cages. We had to be there for when waking up and led her out. She was never awake in their sole care! Wearing a muzzle was associated with her walks anyway so she wasn't that bothered wearing it. Can you muzzle train op?

Yes she has been diagnosed, she had X-rays last week. I know we could manage the surgery etc but I worry about afterwards especially how her other legs will manage bearing the brunt of the weight, she is completely none weight bearing on the injured leg. I suppose I don’t want to cause more injuries to her other legs and all the surgery be for nothing and her last 6-12 months of life being in pain as realistically she probably only has 12 -18 months left of life. I also don’t know how she would manage being crated, she has never been crated and is always with me, she’s my shadow. She can’t manage the stairs and has now taken to sleeping at the bottom of the stairs on a night.

She is muzzled for the vets every time. I do the same I.e sedate in car park and stay with her until she’s out and then collect her before she’s fully come round.

How old was your dog?

Much younger actually. I can see why you're thinking twice.

I wouldn't put a 11.5 year old large dog through surgery . If she was my dog I would Pts.

I'd pts at this stage. I wouldn't put an animal of that age through the stress.

Conservative management?

That’s a convenient option, but not the only one.

Vets haven’t mentioned this. What would this approach entail?

would essentially be palliative care keeping her comfortable enough to enjoy the last days where she really has a quality of life if it was me I’d be just as torn between this option or surgery as really you’re talking about a few months to a few years at max difference with what quality of life decline though I’m dreading my oldest even needing something like dental work as he’s so old now and terrified that i think the stress may be more than it’s worth at this stage altho would always wonder the what ifs of if I did go through with it