Is a 16 week old puppy too late to train properly?

[redtreesy]

We are looking for a puppy and the rescue we are in contact with has a 16 week old papillon

Came from a rough start and is only now starting proper training

Is it inevitably going to end up with some issues that need a lot more work than a puppy that was potentially younger?

No

No, if anything it will be better as it hopefully wont have been crate trained or had other training methods imposed.

Papillon are one of the most intelligent dogs. If you are as clever as them you will have a great dog to train

House training can take a while and if the pup has been in kennels or not house trained that may take a bit of time and effort.

The training (toilet, recall, sit, stay and so on) isn't an issue - they can pick it up at any age. I had to train a 15 month old dog from scratch - all he'd learned was toilet training. He didn't even know sit. He picked it up fairly quickly.

The socialisation is the trickier bit - that is, getting them used to the sights, sounds and smells they'll encounter in life. The main window for that closes around 16 weeks. I think my dog missed out on adequate socialisation as a pup and it was a long hard road as an adult with finite improvements possible (e.g. while he'll manage a cafe long enough to get a takeaway coffee but not a sit down cup of coffee).

Do you know what the rough start entails? It sounds counterintuitive but I'd be much more concerned about a puppy that has spent the last 16 weeks in a crate than one who had been living with a rough sleeper.

It's a slightly awkward point - too old to start from scratch with socialisation, too young to know their adult personality.

Regardless, Papillons are fantastic dogs and I have a massive soft spot for them - I had one years ago. If you're willing to put in a bit more work than you would with a typical puppy, and accept that there are some unknowns with future development, then go for it. If you're exclusively after a relatively easy puppy then this may not be the dog for you.

Echo @ProbablyDogNappersHunX training, not at all. Socialisation could be a tricky

I was teaching my last dog new things up to a year or so before she died at 17! They are never too old to learn. I’m fact older dogs actually learn more quickly in some situations than puppies because they have more focus and self control (if you’ve helped them develop those skills).

We adopted our last dog at 7 months old. She went to on amazing at pretty much everything we threw at her training wise.

Rough start be mindful she is out of the critical socialisation period so it will be counter conditioning and desensitisation rather than socialising. So it will be about building confidence slowly with lots of patience and nice things.

16 weeks is nothing.

I rehomed mine at 18 weeks
He was toilet trained and could do basic tricks but wasn't socialised very well, he had been with another dog

(his owner was taken into hospital 2 days after getting him and as a result he was with another family member who was also doing all the hospital caring- intensive care etc)

Lots of walks- he had never seen a child, a pram, a bus or a bike or anyone who wasn't white. He barked (a lot and I mean a lot) but he is now fine.

Training shouldn't be an issue - dogs can learn at any age.

But socialisation could be trickier - do you know anything about it's background and previous experiences with other dogs and children, for example?

@ProbablyDogNappersHunX

Where do you start with sit? I have rehomed a beautiful 3yr old Sheltie who was too big for showing but kept as she was so lovely. Looks blankly at me when I tried a little the other day.

She doesn't naturally sit either. Stand or constantly rolling over for belly rubs!

I'd be surprised if a 3yo sheltie who has had ringcraft training hasn't mastered a sit - you're probably just using a different command to her previous owner, and it would be worth asking the old owner what command they used if you can.

Dogs also find it easier to follow sign language than words - words change so much with tone, accent, sex and so on. There's an entertaining video at the moment of a dog who looks blankly if his owner uses his natural English accent but does everything if he says the same command in a northern Irish accent.

Regardless, I think I used a treat passed directly over the dog's head to lure into the sit position - more detail here
https://www.rspca.org.uk/adviceandwelfare/pets/dogs/training/sit

How are you asking for sit?

The word, a hand command, a lure?

A dog who has been used in ring craft will know how to sit, it's just the way you're asking her won't make any sense (to her) which is why she's ignoring you.

No, just go back to basics and treat it like an 8 week old puppy for house training.

Thanks coffee - she may have gone in as a puppy but is too big for showing so hasn't done anything like that for 3 years. Had some pups but I think they were also on the big side.

I didn't push it - I just tried an instruction with a treat, tried moving it back over her head a little to see if she knew it.

It's blank slate where to start situation!

Won't start it till she's more settled.

I'd say not as we rescued our dog age 4! He'd been kept in a concrete shed outside his whole life, never been in a house so wasn't toilet trained, didn't know how to go up stairs, not socialised with other dogs and knew no commwbds whatsoever. Took several years of hard work but he was fully toilet trained, reliable off-lead and such a loving member of our family.

She'll still know - but many dogs won't listen to commands from people they don't have a bond with yet, so as you say it's early days!

I walk dogs and some will listen to my every word from day one - with others it takes rather a lot more effort on my part 😂

Ok will give it time - she's very bonded to me but it's all still new for her.

Why don’t you start with something else? Hand touches are easy to teach and great for focus 🙂 That’s the first thing we taught the puppy. We now use it to get her focus in loads of different situations.