Resource guarding

[locomum83]

So we have a border collie, who we got from rescue at 8 weeks old.
We realised pretty early in that resource guarding with his food would be an issue, we think it stems from communal feeding at the shelter.
We have young kids and have taught them from day one never to go near the dog when he's eating or sleeping these are the number 1 rules, by which they abide for the most part.

Bear with me for the next bit...

So the dog now 15 months is starting to get bored of his grain free (very expensive) food, so puts off eating it unless he's certain there's nothing else. sometimes il mix it with some scraps or gravy etc, but he always eventually eats it.

He hadn't yet had his tea, before DH took him out for a walk, when he returned home he trotted into the living room to where my 5 year old was finishing up her tea (never normally eats tea in the living room, just let her as a little Friday treat) as dog was out for his walk anyway. He approached her and she was excited to see him so put her arms round him to hug him and he snapped at her scratching her nose. Her nose bled a lot but when we got it cleaned up saw that there was barely any mark looks more like a tiny paper cut really, but can't be easily seen.
She is naturally very shaken and upset, and we naturally were very cross with the dog putting him outside immediately. But being a collie and being very clever, he knew straight away what he'd done, and has been skulking in his bed ever since.
He's usually got a lovely nature with the children even the toddler, licking and playing etc, but the food has always been a worry for me.
Our initial reaction was "we've got to get rid of the dog" but in hindsight now, I know exactly what went wrong with the whole situation and that it could very easily been avoided.
I know this is incident is entirely my fault, on a number of levels, so I feel very guilty to consider rehoming the dog when the situation could of been avoided. However with 3 young kids in the house and life often busy, I cannot take the chance that this could ever happen again, and god forbid be much worse.
What on earth should I do? I love the dog dearly he's usually a great boy, but this is a massive risk.

@locomum83 there is no such thing as good kibble! It's highly processed with limited nutritional value. Your doing your dog no favours feeding it.

Actually children can bloody well be taught to sit down at the table to eat! It's called being the parent!
Children eating on the move plus dogs is a recipe for disaster.

He is often hugged and watching his body language he will respond by licking and rolling on his side/back in a manner that tells me he is not threatened

I'm afraid that's also the body language of a dog who is uncomfortable - not just one that's happy about being hugged. The vast, vast majority of dogs don't like being hugged. There are exceptions of course - but most will only tolerate it.

The fact that your dog went straight for a bite this evening says to me that his previous attempts at displaying discomfort have been ignored - so this time he felt he had no choice.

However on a positive note, he also showed great restraint - if he'd really wanted to bite your daughter then he could have done some serious damage. As it is, he showed a great deal of bite inhibition.

Collies are complex dogs and IMO they don't generally do well in homes with small children. There's no shame in saying he's the wrong fit for your family.

Your right, he definitely wasn't the best fit for us with a young family, and I realised this fairly soon in, but I refused to allow him to be just another collie surrendered to rescue. So we've made it work, and he's integrated really well into our family, but he knows his boundaries as do I, the children, one in particular needs to just listen to what she's told regarding him, but I think after todays incident this will be better understood.

Dogs don't like being hugged, they do not understand it and it is an entirely human behaviour/emotionally driven reaction.

In our house (with toddler) our dog spends a lot of time in her bedroom or (weather permitting) kennel when not out on her walks or chilling in her bed in our living room. It keeps the dog and the child safe and dogs really need a quiet space to be able to relax and sleep to consolidate anything they have learned on their walk/training session. I totally I found it difficult to leave her in a room or a kennel for periods, but it has done her the world of good and is much more relaxing for us when the toddler is running around with snacks in his hands. It doesn't sound like a resource guarding behaviour though and sounds more like the dog doesn't enjoy being overwhelmed by a child and it wasn't the dogs fault.

Yes I'm a shit parent, I don't need the reminder, perhaps you don't have children? Or if you do then you are a much better parent than me, which I wouldn't doubt.
The children will have the occasional bag of crisps in the sitting room, as do I and my husband of an evening. This should be ok without the fear of our family pet lunging at any of us.
I can make improvements to how we all interact however wee need to be able to live without fear of this being an issue.

Can you recommend a better food then please?

Licking and rolling (classic signs of appeasement/discomfort), combined with a hug, which most dogs don’t like but will tolerate, combined further with the snap, but you think your dog likes being hugged?
Ok.

It’s hard to admit that we do things that we like to our dogs, (who don’t like the thing) purely because it makes us feel good to do the thing. But once you accept this, it’s easier to choose not to do the thing and everyone has a happier life.

the children, one in particular needs to just listen to what she's told regarding him, but I think after todays incident this will be better understood.

This is a big risk to take.

You have a dog who resource guards and who has bitten your child on the face (and drawn blood).

What happens if she goes to hug him again and he's not so restrained next time?

@locomum83 no I don't get the luxury of being a parent! Cancer has robbed me of that. But I have many many years experience working with and looking after children around animals and you do have to have rules. You either have a lifestyle where the children can sit anywhere and eat and no dog. Or you have a dog and rules! It's simple!
Look up raw feeding for dogs. It is a much healthier diet than any form of kibble

Body language has to be taken in context. If the dog is being advanced on by a child who has hugged him before and he rolls then that’s more than likely that’s fear. A roll in the grass when on a walk unlikely.

I lived for over 16 years with a bite risk. You learn pretty quickly.

Maybe look into foods like complete raw foods that are bought frozen and just need defrosting. You don't need to feed huge quantities as the quality is very high, and the dog should eat up straight away. Country Hunter and Butternut Box are two examples of this type of food.

I feed raw and use Bulmers which I add vegetables to. It's a bit more faff than the above options but cheaper.

Fully agree with what others say about hugging so won't repeat that.

Maybe if you need to eat crisps in the living room, your dog could be in another room or crated during this time? Could you use stairgates to keep your dog away from the kids?

Good luck with it all

This is good if you decide to give back. Collies ime can sensitive and mine never liked being hugged hated lt. This didn't sound like guarding honestly it sounded like your child overwhelmed the dog .

“Your right, he definitely wasn't the best fit for us with a young family, and I realised this fairly soon in, but I refused to allow him to be just another collie surrendered to rescue. So we've made it work, and he's integrated really well into our family, but he knows his boundaries as do I, the children, one in particular needs to just listen to what she's told regarding him, but I think after todays incident this will be better understood.”

^There is so much wrong here.

Our big soppy idiot comes to us for scratches etc and loves to sit and lean on us but if we hug him I can see he’s uncomfortable with it. He doesn’t do anything but I can see he’s not happy so we don’t.
Hugging isn’t really normal dog behaviour and for a lot of dogs it’s a bit scary

Licking is a very clear stress signal btw. I’d recommend watching some YouTube videos of dog behaviours because I think what you’re seeing as ‘play’ and comfort is actually your dog signalling stress and you’re not picking up on it.

How so, not being rude but I'd genuinely like your opinion?

We wanted a family dog to enhance our lives, to give an animal a chance from a rescue, because we are animal lovers. I have had two dogs before this one and we've had 5 cats over the past 20 years, so I know a bit about the responsibility of owning a pet.

We wanted a puppy so we could establish boundaries from a young age as we had children, we didn't want to but from a breeder because we don't agree with it when there are so many animals in shelter.

After we got the dog I could see that there was a lot involved with him whilst also having young children, but I didn't want to be just another careless owner who surrendered a puppy after a few weeks.
With some training and some consistency he improved and we've all worked well as a dynamic since, then there was yesterday.

So again, what is wrong with what I've said?

There's sons good videos for children on the Internet- the "I speak doggie" one here might be useful

https://www.thefamilydog.com/kids

I showed DS this one when my collie x was a bit growly with him and it helped
https://www.love2play.ca/the-most-important-video-for-parents-and-kids-to-watch-stop-the-77-the-family-dog/

I know it's stressful but as pp said, your dog showed bite restraint. He basically was getting DD to stop and he only has limited ways to do that. You need to help dd to recognise his body language and respect him.

Nor is licking.

Raw feeding with small kids about is risky.

Ignore the PPs, if your dog is happy and well on the food leave them on it.

Raw feeding suits some people and not others, especially if you have kids and there's a lucky dog. We have a spaniel and he's typically licky happy and despite or best efforts still does it. Don't fancy another bout of Campylobacter poisoning after I got it as a teen, so we don't raw feed.

But definitely look into the dog body language thing it's often very, very subtle.

What rot!!! Raw feeding has absolutely no impact on children whatsoever!

Your talking absolute rubbish!!!

I've never raw fed any dog I've had but something tells me rightly or wrongly that it wouldn't be a good idea with young kids, it would make his dinner a high value item which may encourage him to be some even more defensive. I don't think we'll go down this route. He's thriving excellently on his current food after trying a few, but I think he just gets a bit bored with it.

It's concerning because even though the dog has bitten your child and drawn blood, you seem to think your DD just needs to "learn her lesson" and things will get better.

As I said upthread, what happens if she doesn't? If she hugs the dog again, the outcome could be a lot worse - you're incredibly lucky the dog didn't catch her in the eye or mouth.

Giving him up to rescue doesn't mean you're bad owners and it doesn't mean you can't have another dog in the future, it just means that this particular dog isn't the right fit for you and your home.

Licking when petted or hugged is not a stress signal for god sake.

Licking repetitively is stress - their paws normally, or an object.

Licking their humans face is a sign that he is relaxed and comfortable. Licking is how dogs bond - they learn it from their mothers

This is a dog that has just bitten OP's child on the face when she went to hug it.

If it was happy being hugged, that wouldn't have happened.

Yes, licking can be a sign of affection but it's also a very well-known sign of stress that's often ignored by owners who then go on to say "we never had a warning, it just bit!".

@coffeecupsandwaxmelts the two things are unrelated - the dog wasn't licking then snapped. I was responding to a poster who said licking means a dog is stressed

Wow Mn is a weird place today.

OP

I would hide the thread and get in a 121 trainer who can help your sort the situation out in real life.

Lots of "experts" on here saying some weird things

Context is really important as the licking example above shows

Dont ignore the issue do get in some qualified help and be prepared to change things around and I hope you get this sorted so you are all happy and safe