Air puff collars?

[Riverlee]

Someone was telling me about these? Ie. Collars that emit a puff of air (remotely controlled) to help combat unwanted behaviour. You train the dog by saying ‘no’, trigger the air puff and eventually the dog learns that No means stop the action. After a while, you can stop using the collar. It works in a similar way to the pet corrector sprays.

What’s your question?

Sorry, have people used them? Are they considered the same as e-collars, or an acceptable form? Any thoughts on their general use?

They're an aversive and work exactly the same way as an e-collar and pet "corrector" spray.

Personally I'd rather use positive reinforcement with my animals than to have them associate my voice/actions with getting sprayed in the face.

Sounds like a dickhead way to train a dog to me

Sounds cruel to me

My thoughts are that aversive training methods are likely to result in some dogs becoming fear aggressive.

They’re a punishment technique and will only work if they creat a negative emotional response in the dog.

unless the dog experiences fear, pain or distress then they aren’t going to change their behaviour in response.

so this technique will be effective on dogs that find the air puff distressing.

whether you choose to use it depends how you want your dog to feel

It's a negative technique. It's also lazy and seems quite cruel to me.

I'd go for positive reinforcement every time.
Ignore bad behaviour/use diverting techniques because even a negative response from the trainer is still a response and if the dog is looking for attention, they'll learn that a certain behaviour leads to them getting attention.

Cant really say it better than this tbh.

Op rather than working on the "inappropriate behaviour" think what you want your dog to do instead.

So if the dog is jumping up then reward the dog for all 4 paws on the floor.

If the dog is chasing the children reward the dog for sitting calmly on a mat.

Do you have a specific behaviour that is worrying you?

Have a lovely eight month old lab and this was suggested to us by one person after finding out he doesn’t like the pet corrector spray.

Other suggestions we’ve had is to move him onto adult food to calm him down.

Also lots of different suggestions for collars/leads - half check, slip leads etc. Everyone seems to have a different opinion, and I’m confused and overwhelmed as to what is best/would work for us.

Adult food as lower percent protein.

You don't want to change a puppy's food to dull their spirit. Stop with the corrector spray.

Is he being exercised enough? Have you been to training classes?

8 month old labs can be full of energy and are really good at getting into trouble .

Changing food will not make any difference although in the old days it was recommended. Some gun dog trainers can be stuck in the dark ages a bit.

Have a look at Ladies Working Dog Group - they are an online group but extremely accessible and really encouraging group.

I have labs collies and wcs but do think labs need some specialised training to encourage them to be steady calm dogs and the LWDG has great tips and videos to help with this.

I do understand how confusing it can be when looking for advice - as the advice can literally be poles apart

Re food protein will not make a dog hyper - too many carbs and additives may do though.

Maybe dont tell us what food he is on as all our different views will really add confusion to your thoughts!

If he is on good quality food - this is fine. Avoid things like Bakers or high additive based foods.

Often gundogs are encouraged to be on skinners which is ok but you can get slightly higher quality ingredients for the same price but that will not be causing your dogs high activity levels.

He is an 8 month old lab and should be pretty bouncy - at least I like mine to be bouncy

I can tell you a story about air collars. Well two actually.

The first was my dog running in an agility ring. Another dog came in, chased her and the owner set the collar off. Both dogs got a shot of citronella and mine a bad scare. I had to work hard to get my dog back into an agility ring after that. The ‘offending’ collared dog didn’t care. Chasing a dog was more rewarding. She didn’t notice the smell.

Another was a dog that wore an air collar to try to ‘fix’ reactivity. One day it was out with its owner and a buses air brakes came on. Dog spooked and severely bit the owner.

Still want to use one?

Reward based training works. It’s reliable. It’s kind and unbelievably effective. We don’t bully our kids into behaving as a rule. Why would we do it with an animal who is cognitively similar? Not a great help for a good relationship.

Get yourself a good reward based trainer who can look at ways to help you cope with your puppy. Because that’s what he is. A baby.

What’s the behavioural issue you are having problems with? But echo the above they are quick fixes that can lead to enormous behavioural issues further down the line

He’s a teenage active working breed so will not be ‘calm’ if that is your expectation then it’s unrealistic for this breed at this life stage.

what behaviours is he showing that are a concern to you @Riverlee ?

what are you already doing in terms of exercise and training?

The usual sort of things, pulling on loose lead, jumping up to people, counter surfing etc.

He has a 30 minute walk each day, plus we try to do stuff at home as well - sit and stay, sit/down/lie flat, leave-it etc.

Really really really reinforce and reward his sit. If his default behaviour to get anything from us is to sit - you will slowly eliminate the jumping up at people, the counter surfing and generally rowdiness of lab puppies. In the initial stages also use management to prevent it happening, eg increase distance between him meeting people and have a lead on, do not leave him unsupervised in the kitchen to counter surf, or again have him in a pen so he can not jump up at the counters.

Ask him to sit for everything eg before he gets his food, before you stroke him, before you put his lead on, before he has any interaction with any thing. ask him to sit before you take his lead off, before he goes out to wee in the garden etc.

If he sits on his own without being asked reward him (use his daily food allowance for this.

To build up his wait , ask for a sit then a wait and as long as you give him a release command eg ok he should sit until you release him. Initially say ok really soon so he is only waiting for a mili second then build up.

Start all the training at home in a quiet place and then gradually take it into more exciting environments.

Loose lead walking requires commitment and consistency. Remember if he can not do it indoors he cant do it outside. If he cant walk to heel in the garden he will not do it on a walk.

The ideal situation is to exercise him in an area where it is safe to be off lead until lead walking is established but this is not always possible.

I lure heel work a lot with labs - they love their food and I constantly reward for being in the correct position. I reward at my side and give it a word. So initially just reward the dog for being at my side then when that is solid I add in movement so take a step and dog stay in position and gets rewarded and just increase the distance I can walk.

Some people prefer to turn around when the dog walks ahead _ I find this method frustrating for the dog and the me! but it works for many people.

Hang on in there with training he will get there

I would be giving him a bit more exercise than 30 mins a day.

He will naturally love to hunt so scatter feed some food into the grass to let him use his hunting ability - this will tire him out mentally and physically.

Dont do high adrenalin exercise like chasing a ball - but you can hide a ball for him to find.

You can train all of that without using aversive training techniques.

And yes, he needs more exercise. 30 minutes a day for an adolescent Labrador is nowhere near enough. I would be doubling it (at least), and spreading it over 2-3 walks a day.

Excellent post.

You can also use capturing. So when he is calm, laying or sitting, treat him. He’ll soon start offering that behaviour a whole lot more to get that reward. Does something you like? Reward him.

Clicker training is excellent for this.

Someone told me that puppies are 99.9% management and 0.1% training. They are not wrong!

Id up the exercise a bit too but make it more stimulating - woods are great. Beaches if you can. Sensory and physical. Take his food and get him to search for it.

He definitely needs more exercise - I’d expect an hour or two off- lead at that age. A lot of his boisterousness likely stems from him being unstimulated with energy to burn.

reinforce a ‘settle’ to promote calm quiet behaviour (Google dogs trust training videos)

Also work on impulse-control games, so hiding something and making him wait before finding it, fetch but waiting before allowing him to retrieve, tug where he releases the tug-toy on command in order to continue the game.

for jumping up you need a consistent approach - only reward when 4 feet in the floor.
don’t give him the opportunity to counter-surf.

Engage his brain too - give his kibble in a puzzle feeder or kong wobbler, do scent work, lots of sniffy walks and recall work.

he’ll get there but he needs work, time and consistency