Does anyone have experience with...

[sugarplumfairy28]

Retained testicles. Simple as that.

Our puppy is 16 weeks old, he was born Nov 1st, we saw him a lot before Christmas (he was 8 weeks on December 27th) and then we brought him home January 3rd. He had vaccinations at his 8 week check up (with the breeder) but no mention of his little plums.

At his 12 week vet check the vet did mention they were not there but no big deal. We went back for his 16 week check and last vaccinations and this different vet made a much bigger deal. We have been told it is incredibly unlikely they will descend of their own now, she also couldn't locate them, so probably in his abdomen. She said it should have been noticed at the 8 week check up, that it is considered a 'defect' and that our insurance will not cover the operation he will need at 12 months old, and its not cheap. She told us to talk to the breeder - the breeder has said 'let us know'.

Does anyone have experience with this? Might they make an appearance on their own? What is recovery like, is it super invasion? Am I really supposed to sue the breeder?

We have had one litter of 6 puppies, 5 were male. On their vet check for first immunisation and microchipping the vet noticed that one of them had undescended testicles. She wasn't unduly worried and thought they might appear as he got older. We immediately informed his prospective new owners so they could make an informed choice about still buying him. They took advice and still bought him. I believe the testicles appeared a few weeks later.

Did the vet give any indication for a time frame? The second vet we've seen said that because he is 16 weeks, its now unlikely but information I am reading says up to 6 months old is still 'normal'.

I'm pretty sure she said that they should show by 6 months, or he would need an operation. I got the impression that the operation wouldn't e major. It certainly didn't put his new owners off.

It is not a big thing really and certainly not a sue the breeder issue. Undescended testicles happen/ Some breeds are more prone to it than others but it is just something that happens. Although a dog with undescended testicles (sometimes it is just one testicle) should not be bred from.

The operation depends on where the testicles are sometimes they can not be felt but can be quite close to the surface and can be removed easily sometimes they are tucked away more and the surgery is a little harder.

You do need to have them removed but there is no major rush so by the time they are two. Vets do tend to encourage them to be removed asap but it is very very very very rare for a testicle to become cancerous until the dog is older so you do have some breathing space.

The operation is no more complicated than a bitch being spayed. Recovery is usually non eventful and the dogs are back to normal way too quickly! You may have 10 days of lead walk until the stitches are removed.

I have had two dogs with undescended testicles. One was removed at 2 years and the other one at 2.5 years. They only had the undescended one removed and one dog has one normal testicle still (as he is quite nervous). He had a vasectomy on the remaining testicle (big issues getting that done!)

They may still drop one of ours drop his "normal" testicle at 8 months so it may happen with yours although most drop before 6 months.

My boy only had drop. It's no big deal. We popped him in to get it removed at about 16 months. They found it up near the kidneys & said it had never developed at all. We only had the one removed as he is nervous & needs the testosterone the remaining one gives him

I think the second vet has massively overreacted although she's right that insurance won't cover any pre-existing conditions.

In your shoes I would see what happens in six months or so and if they never descend maybe see if the breeder will cover the costs of the surgery.

What is the cost of the surgery? I would have expected it to be a similar sort of cost to a spay? So not ruinously expensive.

No way is this the breeders responsibility and no they are not liable to pay for the op.

Its like getting a breeder to pay for a cruciate injury - it happens - it may be down to breeding but it may not.

What is the weight of your dog expected to be when full grown?

Oh re insurance. If your puppy had been insured 2 weeks before it first saw the vet the operation would be covered.

The reason it is not covered is that you probably only started the insurance policy the day you got the puppy and nearly all insurance kicks in 2 weeks after the initial start date. (sometimes 3 weeks)

It is always worth getting the insurance before you actually get your puppy to cover the first two weeks you have them.

If your breeder had your dogs registered with KC insurance and you carried on with them then you may be insured for the op. (which is a bonus as normal neutering is never covered on insurance!)

Years ago we purchased a puppy who at the 12 week check was found to only have 1 testicle at 8 weeks he had 2. It never descended and at about 2 1/2 he had the undescended one surgically removed apparently it was “very difficult to find”. He wasn’t the brightest bulb in the box and had a very high pain threshold and he recovered exceedingly quickly and it made no difference to him.
He was a pedigree dog purchased through a reputable breeder she was very upset when I told her. She immediately offered to refund my money and take the dog back, or take the dog back and let me have 1st pick of the next litter or she would pay for the surgery and if at a later date we wanted another dog we could choose 1st pick of any future litter for free.
He was a gorgeous dog we all loved him it made no difference to us and we eventually suggested she paid 50% towards the surgery which she did I think it cost £250. I guess if she’s still alive and breeding dogs that we still have a credit note for another dog from her. But our circumstances have changed and the breed would be inappropriate for our current lifestyle (exceptionally energetic large dog breed).

@IngGenius well, if I was in OP's situation that's what I'd ask them to do.

It's something that should really be have been spotted before the puppy was re-homed, but as it wasn't, the OP is now in a situation where she has a dog with an pre-existing medical condition that's going to require expensive, essential surgery to fix.

She may have chosen not to take the puppy had she known it would require expensive surgery within the first year of its life.

It's not remotely comparable to an injury requiring surgery - this is something the puppy was born with.

@poodlefan your breeder sounds amazing and that's exactly the way I'd expect a decent breeder to react.

My friend just took on a little dog who had this issue. It cost £500 to have the operation and they found the one that hadn't dropped and removed it.

I got my boy because the original people due to have him didn't want him as he only had one testical (they wanted to show him), I got him at a slightly reduced price because of possibility of needing surgery, his testicle dropped on its own at around the 6month age.

My dog’s testicle dropped at 7 months. Rather grim, but apparently you can massage them down if they are lurking just inside.

Thanks everyone I feel a little less panicked now. We are in Germany so perhaps things work a differently.

Couple of things, the insurance won't pay out because they consider this a 'genetic defect' and those aren't covered, even on the best policies. The breeder said their vet said he had 'smaller testicles' than the other 2 boys when I brought it all up. So either they did know and didn't tell us, or their vet isn't very good. That being said I don't know how common it is to misidentify 8 week old testicles. In hindsight we may have chosen one of the other boys but that is irrelevant now as we wouldn't be without him.

The cost of the operation the vet is estimating at 1000€ - 1500€ so not exactly life altering amounts of money but also not what I had planned, we got insurance to avoid large vet bills. Vet prices here are regulated but recently have been allowed to put their prices up for the first time in 20 years. He is a pure breed Beagle, so will be around 15kg when fully grown, he weighs about 8kg right now. The breeder hasn't outright said anything one way or another, other than let them know. I don't feel its right to ask for any amount of money towards an operation we're not certain will happen.

It would seem there is still a chance for them to appear, and if not it's not absolute essential to have this at operation on his 1st birthday right on top of Christmas. Here he is - just because he is too sweet

She was I know some on here believe ethical breeders don’t exist but there are good ones out there if you look carefully.

About 90% of puppies will not have dropped testicles at 8 weeks of age so the breeder could not advise the new owners when the puppy was rehomed

It is quite common for dogs not to drop testicles until 6 months.

Many Cruciate injuries are genetic (or as you say something they are born with) so it is a fair comparison.
Many cruciates are caused by genetic issues so actually it is a fair comparison