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Original poster

Breeder red flags - is this right?

28 replies

Beaujangle · 15/02/2023 18:33

We went to view a litter of labrador puppies at the weekend. Both mum and dad were there, and it was clearly the mums litter as her teats were swollen. What raised a flag with me was that mum wasn’t in the pen with the puppies, and we didn’t see them interact. In fact the breeder seemed to be pulling the mum away? She commented that mum wasn’t really bothered about the puppies now. They are 5 weeks old - would this be normal? I’m fairly confident mum wasn’t sleeping in with pups at night as they were in a barn in quite a small pen and mum was a big dog. When we left the mum followed the breeder back into her house with puppies left in the barn. Is this right?

OP posts:
currantbee · 15/02/2023 18:40

It doesn't sound like a good set up to me, although if they're 5 weeks I think that's the stage where they're being weened and mum is starting to get sick of the puppies. Owning both mum and dad and the barn setup is more of a red flag imo. If I'm getting a dog who is going to live in my house I want a pup that's been brought up in house with all the sights, sounds and smells that involves.

Spanielsarepainless · 15/02/2023 18:42

I would think the mother should still be with the puppies overnight, though they are probably almost weaned. And I would be more concerned that the puppies in a barn aren't hearing normal domestic sounds like vacuum cleaner, washing machine, television and radio. Look elsewhere.

ohsheglows · 15/02/2023 18:44

Hi, I'm not a breeder but I had the same query when I went to see some puppies, apparently the mums get sick of the puppies at around 5/6 weeks of age but will usually sleep with them overnight. They should have been weaned by then. I don't think it's anything to worry about at all!

Choconut · 15/02/2023 18:47

I'd want the puppies to be living in the house not stuck out in a barn.

savvy7 · 15/02/2023 18:51

It's not normal

coffeecupsandwaxmelts · 15/02/2023 18:52

I wouldn't be worried about mum not sleeping in with the puppies but there's no way I'd get a puppy from a breeder who was raising them in a barn and not in a house.

So much vital socialisation happens while the dogs are are the breeders - household noises, visitors, the TV, the radio, people knocking on the door, the phone, the vacuum cleaner...how are they getting used to all that if they're being raised alone in a barn?

stevalnamechanger · 15/02/2023 18:55

Are they a licenced breeder ?

Floralnomad · 15/02/2023 19:06

The issue is more that both parents were present and the pups are not being reared in a house , unless of course you plan on keeping the dog in a barn

Suzi888 · 15/02/2023 19:08

I saw my 11 week old pup with his mum- I’d viewed previously when pup was younger too.
Are parents health scored etc? Is there any paperwork?

Newnamenewme23 · 15/02/2023 19:11

If you didn’t see them interact you can’t be sure they were her pups?

I agree with pp that I wouldn’t want a dog that hadn’t been raised in a home environment.

Timeforachangeisitnot · 15/02/2023 19:16

We first met our pup at 4 weeks old.
I had previously met mum, prior to her mating, and I did see her on the day, clearly the mum, but she was actively trying to avoid having 10 Labrador pups hanging on her teats all the time.
That part of it wouldn’t unduly bother me, but the barn bit would. Our pup was indoors with the family, kids, noise etc. He was very easy to settle and house train when we did take him home. So I do agree with others, the barn would be my issue.

UrsulaPandress · 15/02/2023 19:18

Dear lord. 🚩 🚩 🚩

Original poster
Beaujangle · 15/02/2023 19:24

We’re not going ahead as something didn’t feel right but I guess I just couldn’t put my finger on what was worse, the barn or the lack of interaction from mum! There was paperwork but no health checks which is the other reason we won’t be going ahead.

OP posts:
currantbee · 15/02/2023 19:28

Good luck with your search. We had to sift through lots of adverts to find our lab. The vast majority I ruled out straight away due to lack of health tests or other issues.

Newpeep · 15/02/2023 19:33

Barn. Walk away. It makes so much difference if pup is raised in a home.

I’d want to know the breeding coefficient if the breeder owned both parents. Easy to look up on the KC web site. Plus health tests.

Wolfiefan · 15/02/2023 19:45

No hip score etc. Run a mile. Ditto raised in a barn.
Best place to find a decent breeder is through the breed club.

Newnamenewme23 · 15/02/2023 19:54

Beaujangle · 15/02/2023 19:24

We’re not going ahead as something didn’t feel right but I guess I just couldn’t put my finger on what was worse, the barn or the lack of interaction from mum! There was paperwork but no health checks which is the other reason we won’t be going ahead.

Well done o/p. It can be incredibly hard walking away from a puppy. Especially when your brain tries to tell you you’d be “rescuing” it, giving it a better life etc.

fwiw mine was house raised (show breeder) and when I went to visit it was sheer insanity 😂. Puppies leaping all over the sofa, an old girl with no teeth took up residence in my lap drooling everywhere, while mum tried her best to ignore the idiot children and roll over for belly rubs.

breeder said she slept on the sofa for a week before due date until the puppies were safely here and thriving. Which is why she only had one litter a year, maximum 😂. That and she only had two litters from every bitch, but then kept them as family pets (hence the old girl on my lap).

Wereongunoil · 15/02/2023 19:56

@Spanielsarepainless
I've not read any replies to this thread but your username is an oxymoron 😂

EdithStourton · 15/02/2023 20:36

Plenty of puppies in working litters are reared 'outdoors' - in a barn or stable. One of my dogs spent her first three weeks in the house and the next five in a stable, with long spells out in the garden in a pen rigged up for the litter to play in. She had no problem with the washing machine, hoover, doorbell etc when she came home.

But I wouldn't buy a lab puppy from parents with no health test results - labs are far too prone to hip dysplasia for that. Someone I know has recently driven 60-odd miles to take a lab bitch to a stud dog, in part because the stud had excellent hip and elbow scores. This is despite the fact that he owns a good stud dog himself.

Original poster
Beaujangle · 15/02/2023 22:12

We looked up the KC numbers and inbreeding risk was low despite breeder owning mum and dad. But lack of health tests put us off, also the fact that the breeder didn’t really ask us any questions and we were expecting to be interrogated on our circumstances!

OP posts:
Motorina · 15/02/2023 22:22

You have lots and lots of good reasons to run already, but my concern would be that this is a stunt bitch and not the mum. All of my pups' mothers very definitely interacting with them a lot at that age. And, at 8 weeks, when I collected my middle girl, she was literally taken off the teat and given to me. (Yes, I felt horribly guilty.)

I know breeds - and mothers! - vary, but this seems very odd to me.

Spanielsarepainless · 16/02/2023 06:51

Wereongunoil · 15/02/2023 19:56

@Spanielsarepainless
I've not read any replies to this thread but your username is an oxymoron 😂

And an anagram!

TigeToo · 16/02/2023 06:57

Massive red flag. I’d only buy pups that had been raised in the house amongst the family.
These poor pups are heading for a life of socialisation issues.

theemmadilemma · 16/02/2023 07:46

Agree with comments re not being in the house.

Well done for walking away.

cadbury123 · 16/02/2023 07:52

For me it depends on the barn,

1- you've not elaborated, ie if it's warm with a roof and a door I don't think I would bat an eyelid! - my working lab was in in a barn when we saw him at 8 weeks. (We knew the breeder though)
2- Labrador is a working dog, a lot of working dogs live in external kennels or in an outbuilding.
3- they will most likely have been moved outside when mum stopped cleaning up after them, do you realise how messy a litter of puppies are!
4- it's normal for mum to be spending time away from them at 5 weeks, that's not a red flag at all

We have had a couple litters of labs in the past, just my perspective.

Some people here are a little extreme IMO!