My dog snapped at a dog who approached it

[postitpatty]

I'm annoyed. Was out today walking dog, he can be anxious, we always walk him on a short lead and we're working on his social skills. Busy woodland park type place. He's been good as gold, sniffed and been friendly with at least ten dogs that we've passed also on lead, I always tell the other owners he's anxious and may react before allowing an approach. He has no interest in humans and ignore people passing him. Anyway, almost at the end of the walk and this small white yapping fluffy dog come running over to him, off lead, barking, our dog backed into our legs but the suddenly snapped at the white dog . The owner then came running over screaming and picked her dog up. I said 'you need to have your dog on a lead' and we continued our walk. Our dog didn't actually bite the white dog but to be fair it may have done if she hadn't picked it up.
We continued walking, I turned round and she was taking photos of us! So now I'm probably on social media somewhere labelled as having an out of control dog, even though it was her dog off lead running up to on lead dogs uninvited.
Our dog is a mongrel about spaniel sized.

Why do people with small dogs seem to think it's fine to let their dogs run up to anything any everything? It's always bloody little dogs that seem to run up and approach uninvited.

I genuinely don't think we did anything wrong. How are we supposed to work on socialising him without taking him to places where he will see other dogs. I can control who he approaches but unfortunately I can't control other peoples off lead dogs.

He's a rescue but we've had him from being a very young puppy. He's now 2yrs.

Strange what people say about their dogs not liking small fluffy white dogs. My sheltie was usually very friendly to any dog who approached ( she had poor recall so we just couldn't let her off) but any small white dog- especially westies- she would go totally ballistic! Always used to cross the road if I saw one and warn owners not to approach!

As others have said- your dog was under control so the other owner was most definitely at fault and wouldn't have a leg to stand on with any complaint.

Why should I not take my dog in the woods off lead because your dog is on lead in the woods?

It's not that he shouldn't go there in general, it's that other people's on-lead dogs have just as much right to be there as you do. And they should be able to walk their on-lead dogs without having to worry about being approached by your off-lead dog.

If your dog can't reliably be called back, then he needs to be on a lead or a longline so that he never has the chance to approach an on-lead dog. It's for his safety as much as anything else.

I don't let my dog off the lead in the woods because he can't be trusted not to chase deer and squirrels - but that doesn't mean I want other dogs running up to him and winding him up when he has no means of escape. It stresses him out and makes him reactive.

If your dog came over and got bitten or snapped at because you had no control, I would be extremely pissed off with you because you're putting my dog in a situation where he has no choice but to defend himself and that's not fair.

It's not the job of an on-lead dog to train your dog and to tell it to go away.

By law dogs must be under control in public. Those on a short lead are. If you can’t recall your pup then it isn’t. Harness and longline until you can.

@caramac04

You use a long line until you've trained excellent recall, either with your voice or whistle. Yes, it is hard work, yes it takes time and energy, yes not bothering and just unclipping the lead and making it someone elses problem is easier. If your dog is a puppy, it's recall will not yet be excellent.

It's nice for you to think that your dog's right to be off lead is what's impportant, but in reality that is not the case. Your dog's right to go where it wants doesn't trump the rights of on lead under control dogs to be in any public space.

It takes split seconds for a dog interaction to turn into a fight, especially if one of them is leashed, and one of the owners isn't switched on with dog behaviour.

The bottom line is that by letting your dog approach other dogs who are on lead, you are not protecting your dog.

oh ffs this is getting ridiculous, I was actually trying to be supportive to the OP. My dog is not a nuisance to other dogs and despite being bitten by an Akita and attacked by a Labrador he is not aggressive on or off lead. I will continue to take him off lead in the woods but keep verbal control. However. Can’t guarantee that I won’t stumble on a tree root and take my eyes off him. He does come back when called but might take him a few seconds as he is curious.

When he was attacked both dogs were on lead but met in a narrow space where neither had seen the other. The Labrador was off lead , as was my dog. The owner was a ‘professional’ dog Walker who had 4 other dogs with her who kept their distance.

Akita on lead

Ricco12

I like your shout stop and sit approach I might try that next time an off lead dog approaches.

caramac04

please give over with your 'poor dogs walked on leads poor things how awful for them'
there are 101 reasons wy a dog may be on a lead.
-german shepherd friend who has dodgy hips, not allowed to run, so on a lead.
-greyhound who has strong prey drive, so on a lead for the protection of small fluffy animal (oncluding dogs) and themselves so they don't run off over a road.
-dog with no recall
-dog still in training (we adopted ours aged 2.5, and then started training, so it takes time)
-foster dogs - when we fostered they were not allowed to be walked off lead
-ill dogs
-and dogs who (like ours) get a long on lead sniffy walk in the mornings (because he can't be trusted off lead) and a 30 minute mad running walk in a safe field with dh a dog friend in the evening.

You really have no idea at all why that dog is on a lead.

And on that few seconds when you’re stumbling over a tree stump your off-lead dog might get bitten by an on-lead dog it’s decided to approach - you takes your chances.

@caramac04 I'd say that what's more ridiculous is that you won't apply some manners to the situation and protect your puppy by ensuring it is under control, despite it already having been attacked twice by other dogs.

But you admit you don't have verbal control - if you did, your dog wouldn't approach strange dogs and get itself bitten while off the lead.

I'll never understand owners who won't take basic precautions like using leads to keep their dogs safe.

If your dog is getting itself into situations where it gets bitten while off the lead then you're not only risking them needing hospitalisation or surgery, but you're also risking them becoming one of "those dogs" you moan about that has to be kept on a lead the whole time

@Quveas your dog sounds brilliant (due to a lot of training & dedication!)

Some people are just... stupid? Lacking in common sense? Not sure, but certainly fucking annoying!!

@postitpatty I kind of hope you find a photo on line. Then you can comment!

'Yeah, my on-lead dog was clearly at fault here when your off lead dog ran at him🙄🙄luckily mine only snapped to tell yours to get out of his face! Yours might not be so lucky with other dogs! Get it on a lead!'

I lived abroad for a few years with my GSDs. Beautiful dogs but scarey for some folk- had people press themselves into walls like snow angels a couple of times we walked by them - par for the country though.
Lots of small dogs offlead in the villages and towns would approach my male dog who was on the lead always, yapping snarling and growling at him.
Despite training and socialisation it turned him into an aggressive nervous nightmare who could only be walked at crappy times of the day and crappy places to avoid other dogs. It truly ruined both our lives and deprived us both of so much pleasure. As a result I turned my back on the breed. I'm a lot older now and couldn't face the same thing happening again.
Selfish dog owners are idiots.

YANBU, you had your dog under control, she hadn't. It's her entirely her fault.

Unfortunately OP there are a lot of selfish and stupid dog owners out there. You did nothing wrong. I have a very dog reactive rescue who hates all other dogs but I manage it by walking her early in the morning, muzzled and on a lead. She will ignore other dogs that pass quietly but will lose her mind if they bolt up to her. It is unbelievable how many dogs do though and how their owners have zero control in terms of getting them back. Her aggressive response to those dogs usually provokes an aggressive response back from those “friendly” dogs but of course my dog is unable to defend herself and we have been to the vets twice last year for dog bites to my poor girl. Which in turn makes her reactivity and hatred for other dogs even worse so it’s a vicious circle.

This.

My breed can be reactive with other dogs if socialisation isn’t done carefully. So we’re taking great steps to make sure every experience she has is a good one or if not, neutral. A big part of that is making sure she is not approaching onlead dogs and us reading off lead ones to see if it’s appropriate. She has been scared by dogs whose owners do not have that control and it drives me potty. It takes work. But time spent now is less time later.

You run the huge risk of being one of those ‘cruel’ people who have to keep their dog on a lead. Please use a long line to stop your dog getting into trouble. For all our sakes.

Absolutely not, you’re all getting your knickers in a twist. When my dog was attacked by the Akita he was on a lead. When the Labrador attacked the professional dog walker and owner had him and a few other dogs off lead. I will put my dog on a lead where I see other on lead dogs or children ( he is used to children but he’s big and could scare some children). I will continue to train him on a daily basis and get his recall perfect. I can’t actually remember the last time he didn’t come straight back but I wouldn’t say he’s 100% in case he proves me wrong. When we’re walking he chooses to be at my heel unless he’s chasing his ball.
people seem to have a skewed view and think all dogs have issues. I was guilty of that when I worked with children with challenging behaviours. Go into mainstream and most are fine. Most dogs are fine but Mumsnet love to moan about dogs. Every day it seems.

Doesn't sound like you have excellent control to me if the other dog has to 'communicate go away'.

I sincerely hope your large puppy does not get attacked again. It doesn't take much. Then you have a large reactive dog on your hands and a long line until recall is firm will be the least of your worries...

That's probably because every day there's an incident with off lead dogs. We've all had them with our on-lead dogs.

Most dogs are fine but Mumsnet love to moan about dogs. Every day it seems

Maybe that's because we've all had issues with off-lead dogs running up to us and causing a problem where there shouldn't have been a problem.

Dogs who are on lead and under control are not the issue.

Well just back from a walk with both of my dogs who totally ignored both on and off lead dogs. Mine were on and off lead at different times. Must be doing something right.

Perhaps you didn’t stumble over a tree root?

I didn’t, no. How fortunate.

OP, you were not in the wrong. I had something similar. A pair of small yappy things scampering up to my on-lead dog. I called out to the owner (who was absorbed in her phone screen) that my dog is a very nervous rescue, and to please call her dogs back. She ignored me. My dog reacted, and she then started yelling at me about my 'vile creature', and demanding an apology from me! I just said her dogs should have been on a lead, but she wasn't having it. Some people have the hide of a rhino.

For background, my dog is a recent rescue, he's old, and was found straying and emaciated. He's probably learned to see other dogs as the enemy. We keep him on a short yellow lead, because he has a high prey drive, and if another dog comes near him, he reacts. I don't know that everyone understands a yellow lead means they need space, though.

It's tough. We do what we can to keep our dogs safe, and not put them in positions where they are forced - through fear - to react. But when other dog owns just don't seem to care, it's frustrating.

Indeed.