Talk to me about crates

[AnotherBreakfast]

We're on the verge of getting a lab puppy 🤞 and we want to crate train but I am totally overwhelmed!
Do I buy a puppy size crate? Or do I buy a big one that they grow into? Do they need a crate when they're older?
Thanks in advance for the advice

“Dogs are polyphasic sleepers. This means they sleep in short periods, like to get up and move around as well as changing positions.
Changing surfaces that they sleep on also helps them regulate their temperature.
Therefor, crating dogs goes against their natural way of sleeping and removes all option of them fulfilling this instinctive behaviour.”

”How would you like being locked in your bedroom all night and/or for 8 hours a day? How do you think you’d sleep?’
Or, considering some of the sizes of crates, how about being confined to your bed for a duration of time? And being escorted to the loo when someone finally says you’re allowed to go, before being escorted back to bed?”

themuttyprofessor.co.uk/2017/07/20/crate-debate-crate-not-crate/

Size - go small then size up.

Crate training other than popping them in overnight to sleep and releasing the door as soon as they wake can take months. So don't expect to put them in and them be fine with it when they are awake.

It's easy to crate a pup in your room for safety and toilet training overnight - you just put them in when sleepy, let them go down and then shut the door. Expecting them to be ok in it in the day is a whole other thing that takes ages and loads of effort.

My last dog was crated at night her whole life. First by choice but then she became incontinent so it was a great way to keep her clean as we could line it with liners and vet bed. She was safe, secure and happy wherever we slept with no risk of puddles! Current pup will be her choice entirely although we would prefer to crate her when we camp.

Crate training is ONLY useful in making sure that they are comfortable with going in at the vet however when they're at the vet they're usually going to be out of it anyway and a short space of time so consider whether it really is that important.

It's quite a 'modern' invention and I'm not sure massively useful or pleasant for the dog.

I'm sure people will be a long and say it's a wonderful safe space for a dog but that could just as well be a basket or similar that is their own and out of the way, that they can choose to come in and out of.

There is absolutely no reason to lock a dog in a crate at home. Absolutely none.

Wow, such interesting responses. Everything I've read has been very pro crates/crate training so far...
we certainly weren't planning on locking the dog in it all day!
Just looking for somewhere that can be secured overnight when they're little to keep them safe, which is why I was considering just getting something smaller than just getting a huge crate straightaway that might overwhelm pup...

I can only tell you what we have done.

Last dog was an older rescue. I decided to crate train to keep her safe overnight camping. When she was trained she always chose the crate over beds wherever we were. As she became less of a flight risk we used to keep the door open but could shut it with no problems. She used to be crated in the car when we went to compete in agility shows. She was safe, comfy and I could leave the car boot open

Current pup sleeps in one. We take her to bed when sleepy, allow her to trot in and settle down then shut the door and we cover it as our bedroom is drafty. Obviously leaving air flow space. We then pop the door at the first hint of her wanting out and take her to the loo. Depending on what time it is we take her back to our room where she chooses to go back in.

Our bedroom wouldn't have room for a pen and we don't want her on the bed. So a crate works for us. At no point have either of my dogs been shut in against their will or been left to cry. So far pup is showing the same love for her crate as our last dog. I do day time crate train but that's a much slower process and after several months haven't got as far as shutting the door!

What do you mean re keeping them safe at night? How would they not be safe?

When they're a puppy they're not going to be trained to be in the crate yet so you'll need to have other ways to keep them safe!

Lots of stuff online I agree but to be honest there's some horrible advice online. Get a puppy book written by a positive behaviourist and follow the advice from there. Honestly. I read sooo much online and now I have a dog I realise just how much of it was crazy.

Just to add re the above poster - that advice there seems sound as sounds like more akin to a comfy bed! I just hate crates being used to keep dogs out of trouble.
Usually they're chewing up the carpet, weeing and pooing everywhere because they're stressed or you're not there to show them where the toilet is. Both of which can be solved in a much nicer way than locking them up.

I crate trained my puppy. He slept in it at night. If I get it out, he goes straight into it and curls up.

I have never locked him in it except for transporting. But the fact that he's perfectly happy in it means that time st the vet recovering from an op is a lot less stressful than it would be if he thought if it as punishment

My dog also sleeps all night long on my bed. So I'd say the mutty professor is talking bollocks.

DDog has never been in a crate.

She was 6 months old and almost house trained when we got her from the rescue, and it was summer so just left the back door slightly open. The only accidents were when we closed the door and didn't take her out last thing. So don't have the experience of a younger puppy - but from what I have read they need room to go to the toilet a little away from their bed anyway. So with a young puppy/cold weather would have blocked off a bit of the room and put down pads.

She has her bed under a side table in a corner, so tucked away and peaceful and the rule is that she is left alone when she's there. She takes herself off there when she wants to, comes back when she wants company.

She usually sleeps in my room, but I hear her pottering downstairs where she presumably sleeps in her bed or on the sofa, then comes back when she wants company.

I don't see the value in cages. Dogs need a quiet, comfortable place available, but no need for it to be a cage.

Crates/cages weren't a thing until recently, I don't know why they have become fashionable (well, I suppose for owners convenience, but if you get a dog then you need to think about their needs more than your own convenience)

You can get dividers for larger crates which is what we did for our lab. They grow so quickly that anything puppy sized will soon be obsolete. We only really used the crate overnight to aid with toilet training (pup doesn't want to soil it's den so will wake you). Never had a single accident so it worked well in that respect.

Our pup now sleeps like a solid immovable lump on our bed, she hasn't got the memo about being a polyphasic sleeper.

Some dogs like crates. Some don’t. My dog does but he’s never locked in. It had a cover over it so I think he finds it cosy and safe. We didn’t train him to use it. Just left it there, put his bed in it and he started to go in.

They’ve been a thing for years in dog activity and camping circles. They’re just relatively new for pet owners and there is an expectation you can shut your puppy in with a chew for an hour or two and they’ll be fine. They’re not.

We also used a large crate with a divider but used a cat carrier to bring her home (take the top off and put towels on the bottom)

you’ll get people saying their dog loves the crate so much they spend 22 hours a day in there and people saying their dog sleeps on their pillow and it’s so cruel because they’re basically small humans but the truth is very much in the middle - useful to have, use in moderation

Lots of extremes of views here. I have two dogs, same breed, one LOVES her crate and the other would HATE to be shut in. So i use it for the one who like it only. And to be fair - its more of an enclosed pen - she is tiny, the pen is massive so she has an area to eat, drink etc and walk around a little.
i do understand your point about keeping a puppy safe at night. i barely slept the first month when i got the second pup as he hated the playpen and i was terrified of him doing himself damage getting into trouble over night.

Thanks @Newpeep that's really helpful advice. I was thinking of starting small as well, plus would help while pup is sleeping upstairs with us! Good to know.

Well, they are useful/necessary to transport a dog, in the vets etc. Presumably showing, and other specific circumstances. So when I say they weren't a 'thing' I meant for everyday pets.

When DDog comes camping we have a screw in thingy which we attach to her lead so she can't wander off, then she sleeps with us once we sleep - ideally. Actually the sounds and smells means she acts like she is on crack for the first 48 hours and doesn't want to come to bed 😂

I’m sitting here looking at my two dogs happily asleep and snoring in their open crates. They choose them all the time, and it’s hugely helpful to be able to shut them away for short periods of time e.g. if my son has his best friend over who is nervous around dogs.

As you can see - crates are very divisive

I would say - be open minded and be prepared for your dog to hate it. Some dogs love their crates but some really hate being trapped so make sure you have a Plan B in place in case your dog falls into the latter category.

I use the crate only for sleep, either night time or enforces naps. My dog is pretty neutral to it. Doesn't hate it, doesn't love it. We're phasing out enforced naps in crate since he's getting better and better at settling on his own now.

The crate has been a life-saver in the first two months together, we travelled a lot and the crate was his own little bedroom.

What I don't like about the crate is that it seems that it has permeated all aspects of dog training. It seems really hard to find advice about dog training which doesn't mention the crate.
I have no intention to crate my puppy when he's home alone. Giving a chew and closing the door isn't training, it's management at best.

We have our dogs crate in the kitchen , he is very rarely locked in - usually only if we have strangers visiting to look at jobs in the house etc. He goes into it when we are in the kitchen but never known him to wander away into it on his own - but the fact he has three beds and most of my king size bed at his disposal is a factor

We’ve always used a crate for our lab puppy (now seven months old). We know he’ll be safe in there, and not destroying the house.

we started with a smaller one and are now on our second crate. I think if you get them too big, then they can wee and poo in there. Dogs don’t like peeing on their bed, and bigger crates means there’s more room around to do this.

We’ll probably keep a crate until we feel he can safely be left without wanting to get up to mischief when awake.

incidently he’s only on their for sleep purposes or for short periods.

Don’tforget to join us on the puppy survival thread when he arrives.

My lab slept in his crate for the first month - at night or when we went out. I had a ‘day bed’ in the kitchen for him, and he gravitated to that for naps. At 5 months he made it clear the crate was not for him, so we ditched it. He then slept in his bed just outside our room.
I had a full sized adult crate for him, divided into sleeping and eating area, when he was first with us.
He was incredibly easy to house train, and between bitter apple spray and vigilance, he chewed very little that was not ‘allowed.

My second dog, a rescue, was utterly traumatised by being left for hours in a too-small crate. It was an absolute non- starter for her.

They have had no issues being crated at the vets, or in cars, they are both calm dogs.

My preference is to have dogs that can sleep without crates, but it was a help for the first few weeks with our young puppy.

If you leave puppy alone in a crate it will cry from emotional isolation because it is a pack animal and its instinct is to stay close by the pack. When a puppy is removed from its mother and family, its new owners become its new pack and it is very stressful for it to be expected to be alone in a crate.

@RDAnna Our pup was so small that I was worried about squashing her or her getting under blankets/duvet stuck, she also chewed everything. We couldn't leave her alone when we showered etc, large house so we didn't want her going up and down stairs.

There are lots of reasons for a puppy not to be safe. She wanted to chew cables and wires especially .

We waited till she fell asleep and then put her in and she slept pretty much through the night from the start. Same as naps in day, as soon as she woke we let her out.

Getting the biggest crate possible helped definitely. Lots of people have more than one dog so they can't be left unsupervised at the start.

Our 5 month rescue pup does sleep in a crate overnight and is popped in for around 10-15 minutes everyday when my partner does the school pick up. I wouldn't say he loves or hates it. It's part of the routine we have to help keep him safe in the house when we're not supervising as he is all over the place 90% of the time! He has a large crate with a comfy bed and a few safe toys and sleeps really well overnight at the moment. We have very steep stairs and I didn't want to worry about him coming up and down them while he's so little. It took about a week to settle him into sleeping downstairs in the crate. The first couple of nights one of us was on the floor next to him as he was very unhappy if not! We then moved to the sofa and then upstairs. He's done really well. We also have a big bed for him that isn't in the crate, but he tends to prefer day time naps on our lounge rug.