Any advice accepted elderly dog and thinking about PTS ( not today but when )

[BasiliskStare]

Our eldest dog is 15 in 4 weeks time. ( Border Terrier ) . 3 months ago Dh thought he had had a stroke as he was wandering in circles and his head was to one side - took him vet & it wasn't. He had some tablets and got very much better . I don't think it is Cognitive dysfunction but something similar - not a BT thing just and elderly dog thing.

He is not in pain ( except when he his patted round his head and his mouth - his teeth are bad but though he has been before to get them cleaned under GA the vet said he is a bit old to go under a GA now - they would not recommend it - so he gets wet food & eats it )

He will chase a ball in the park

But he has started just stopping where he is and weeing or pooing where he stops ( ie indoors) He has gone deaf I am sure of that. His eyes don't look quite right , a bit filmy . He is getting very grumpy .

My view is until he looks or sounds in pain we keep him going as long as he can & just deal with the rest of it.

Does anyone have any better advice. We will be so sad to lose him but I am of the opinion as long as he is eating and will go for a walk and we know his mouth is sore & he can't hear or see as well and take account of that we will just live with his agedness.

Is there anything else I should out for in an elderly dog & if not upsetting - what made you make the decision.

Be in no doubt I will be taking him to the vet so not going to diagnose him via the internet but just interested if people can say what made you think the end was really nigh rather than the inconveniences of old age. ?

I really do apologise if this upsets anyone - do report it if so & get it taken down

Basilisk

Dogs don't tend to howl and whimper when in pain they just go quiet and suffer, or get snappy if they're that way inclined.

If a dog is howling and whimpering with pain then you've definitely left pts way too late.

I think if he’s got to the stage where he’s soiling inside the house then you’re near the end. Watch out for him arching his back at any point, because that could be a pain indicator. It’s often said that we treat our pets with more respect than humans by euthanising them instead of them suffering to the end, so maybe bear this in mind. You’ve had his interests at heart throughout his life and you need to have the same at the end of his life - he trusts you to do your best for him, but it’s so hard and you have my sincere condolences. A friend sent me the poem below when we had to have our beloved pet euthanised and hopefully it may help. You’ll know when the time comes 💐

The Last Battle

If it should be that I grow frail and weak
And pain should keep me from my sleep,
Then will you do what must be done,
For this — the last battle — can't be won.
You will be sad I understand,
But don't let grief then stay your hand,
For on this day, more than the rest,
Your love and friendship must stand the test.

We have had so many happy years,
You wouldn't want me to suffer so.
When the time comes, please, let me go.
Take me to where to my needs they'll tend,
Only, stay with me till the end
And hold me firm and speak to me
Until my eyes no longer see.

I know in time you will agree
It is a kindness you do to me.
Although my tail its last has waved,
From pain and suffering I have been saved.
Don't grieve that it must be you
Who has to decide this thing to do;
We've been so close — we two — these years,
Don't let your heart hold any tears.

It's so incredibly hard when they get to the age where we start questioning, Border terriers are proper little soldiers, their pain threshold is high. Good luck with whatever you do, he's your dog and you know him better than anyone,

@Rosscameasdoody That's got me going away. 4 weeks tomorrow since I lost my boy 💔

My sincere condolences, I didn’t mean to upset anyone. I hadn’t read it since having our boy PTS and I must admit I had a weep too, even though it’s a bit longer for us. 💐

Oh OP so hard. People say you will know when it is time but I find it very hard!

The grumpiness would worry me and as others have said an indication that your dog is in pain.

I also think what my dogs are no longer doing eg maybe not getting up to greet me, or not being so involved in what is going on around them, No longer barking at the neighbours for example.

Many dogs will drag themselves out for a walk of short ball chase but stop doing subtle things.

Be prepared for your vet to offer a trial of medications, ours always do and sometimes I have to be blunt and ask direct questions. When I do you can usually see the vet relax and be happy to have the discussion.

for a difficult time

@Rosscameasdoody

that poem brought a tear to my I and have said & I say again - I will not let this dog suffer - he will be booked in to the vets next week & he is so much monitored each and every day. If we thought he was suffering ( & thank you for those have given other hints as to how a dog could be ) he will go in earlier.

I will update after vet trip

Thank you all

Yes, please keep us updated.

My view is until he looks or sounds in pain we keep him going as long as he can & just deal with the rest of it.

Please, please, please don't do that. Animals will suffer in silence because they know no other way. He is NOT going to get better so don't let him struggle until his pain is so great he has to tell you. Do the right thing by him.

I'm lucky in a way as our old boy goes to the vet monthly for his Librela injections. I ask every month what do they think as he is riddled with arthritis and has the beginning of doggy dementia. I have slept downstairs with him since September 2021 as its the only thing that will settle him.
We have tried numerous combinations of medications and we are now down to the final ones to try. He is on tramadol, paracetamol and the Librela plus yucalm and selegiline.l now take it day by day and think that's all you can do when you have an aged pet be it cat or dog. As much as you love them, you do what's right for them.
You will know when the time is right, don't doubt yourself, take advise from your vet and trust your heart.
Best wishes.

Oh, op. It’s so hard. I’ve got my 13 year old Pointer in bed next to me, and we are going to say goodbye this weekend. I am absolutely in pieces over it, he’s been my dearest friend and near constant companion for so long. We’ve been so lucky with his health until the last year, but now he’s old and he’s tired and I think he’s in pain. Last night his back legs gave out when getting up and I know it’s time for him to go, it’s the last loving thing I can do for him.

But my god it hurts.

This. It makes an absolutely massive difference. It's not less sad - nothing can make it less sad - but it's so much better for the animal (we did it with my dcat), because they're not stressed like at the vet. They're in their place of love.

Not all vets offer this and it's more expensive. If at all possible though, I'd always opt for it this way.

I'm so sorry ddog is at this stage of his life and you're at the point of having to think about this.

@userxx and all

Thank you all for comments and experiences.

DDog is booked in for a check-up next Friday morning. He seems OK at the moment but I shall be quizzing the vet . I will update.

I'm so sorry 😞 it's the hardest thing, we've just said goodbye to our boy and it's broken me. But take comfort if you can that you're doing this for him, it's the last act of love you can do for him. Hold him and talk to him as he's going to sleep; he will know and take comfort from your face being the last thing he will see and your voice will be the last thing he hears ❤️

Can you update us OP ? How are you doing ?

I have a 15 year old Jack Russel who has arthritis in her back but is on Galapan & painkillers every day. She had teeth out & cleaned last year under GA at vet recommendation but I regret it as she cried for a week afterwards, though it has helped her to keep going.

like you am daily looking for signs it’s time for her but she enjoys her short walks, loves her food & gets excited at dinner time. Do not quite time yet.

Good luck OP. I would throw all the painkillers and supplements at him, put him in a nappy as well if he'll be ok with it, and then see how he does.
Dogs can express pain by just panting, licking painful areas a lot, by being grumpy and subdued, by going off their food.
As long as you try your best but don't stick your head in the sand, you should be able to make the right calls for DDog.
PS if / when the time does come, you can ask for DDog to be sedated first so you can say your goodbyes while dog is peaceful. That's for you not the dog, but it won't do them any harm, and if it will make the experience a bit less distressing for you it's worth considering.

I am so sorry to read this and so grateful you are trying to make his last days the best days.

If you can, I would ask the vet if they can do home visits to PTS.

My vets did this for our 20 year old cat and it was life changing. We had a lovely morning together, they came and administered the medicine in her own environment (on her favourite footstool) and she passed away with me kneeling bedside her whispering love into her ears.

No sterile cold metal bench and a scary vet visit and the cat box.

I played relaxing music and had candles lit.

It was harrowing but so much better than the vets.

@BasiliskStare I had to make the decision to put both my old girls down. Asked the vet to come to the house for the first one who had already lost one eye through glaucoma and the other was starting to swell, she just didn't look happy - when I got home Ddog was so deep asleep I thought she had already passed away. She didn't move when the vet arrived but as soon as the vet picked up her paw, DDog jumped up and gave me SUCH a reproachful look I will never forget it. I think that was one occasion when I was probably a day too early.

However our second old girl was different - she was still eating and drinking but had struggled with incontinence since her puppy days (bladder in a weird position or something) but was getting worse and also seemed to be struggling to move easily. I took her to my parents house where she had spent many happy hours and our lovely vet came out to us there. DDog laid across my lap, and went very quickly and peacefully and it was clearly exactly the right time. We buried both dogs at my parents in a graveyard with all their dogs!

The point of my rambling is that. one of the hardest decisions you will ever make is when is the 'right' time. As my experience shows, you may not get it exactly right every time but at least its kinder than the poor dog being in pain and just deteriorating like so many of our elderly relatives do. Would like to wish you lots of love and luck making the decision - sounds like you are going to have to be the strong one! xx

Thank you all

Basilisk Dog seems to have been better over the last week. We have been putting some more dried food in his dinner & that seems fine. Still won't jump off the bed. Still running on his walks albeit slower than he was. The weeing in the house is much better but we are putting him outside much more regularly .

So unless anything else the next update will be on Friday when I will make sure vet gives him a thorough check and I will tell the vet everything we are concerned about .

Sorry to all who have lost their dogs. It's horrid but we are determined not to let him suffer . If it is old age and the vet says he can keep going happily ( medication if required ) we will do that but I will make sure everything is checked out properly & get an honest opinion from the vet. Same vets he has been going to since we had him. Not the same person but I trust the practice.

Thank you all and will update on Friday 💐🐾

We had our BT put to sleep before Christmas. She had lung cancer and was given hours to live after her X-rays. So we made the appointment for 36 hours later.

Just a word of warning for you. The only reason SandyDog wasn’t dead before her appointment was because she didn’t know she was supposed to be dead. I kept vigil with her the night before and really thought she might die because her little diaphragm was having to work so, so hard. She really should have given herself a rest but we had to do it for her. We weren’t the day too late but, I think, a few hours too late. But she walked into her appointment and took all the treats that were on offer, as per normal. She just didn’t know she could die or that she should die.

And she only went downhill for a couple of weeks. Before that - nothing was wrong from the outside.

Welcome to the world of Border Terriers.

Look up HHHHHMM - it's a quality of life index. Our vet recommended using this with our old dog. It's very helpful in charting those small changes over time which we don't notice. It takes some of the guesswork out of deciding.
She had a lot in common with your dog, the blindness/deafness, the head tilt,bad teeth, but was still enjoying walks/food etc. I have to say though, that losing continence was the issue that really made us think hard about whether the time was coming.

We had to make this discussion,and a week ago Friday,had Leo our Phalane PTS,he would have been 18 in march. Vets back and forth last year, the symptoms you describe. The going round in circles was CCD we tried suppliments and tablets,none helped. Cataracts, deafness, rotten teeth for 2years,then barking,crying howling at night. Then he would go for a walk on the beach,seem perfectly happy. But he was frightened, double incontinent, eating really well,vet said that is no indication of health or well being...it's just an instinct. Our last dog was 17,DH dog 18,he had her his whole adult life. We kept putting it off. Our vet of 25 years is an 80 mile round trip, but I wouldn't want an animal PTS in my home,I couldn't stay there. We took his bed and blankets. My DH stayed while his little dog was PTS, ended up suicidal!!!

I think when you feel they are old (so have reached the end of their natural lifespan) plus they have more bad days and moments than good, and they've lost the sparkle in their eye, that's probably the time.

Your DDog would not want to be toileting inside the way he is. I know how painful it is for a loving owner to make this decision.

A friend of mine let her elderly, sick DDog go on too long (IMO). Vet said it was time, but that he could see friend wasn't ready to let DDog go, so said DDog could last another week. She left it two. I personally don't think that was right. It shouldn't be about what's best for the owner, it's about what's best for the animal.

So glad to see things have improved a bit. It makes such a difference when you have been with the same vet all the way - trust is everything, and the love for your boy shines through in your posts. I’m sure I speak for all on the thread when I say that all fingers and toes are crossed for the best outcome for you both. Will check back on Friday for your update. In the meantime, thoughts and prayers are with you and Basilisk Dog.💐