Collie + toddler

[Deut28]

I'm a non-dog owner, parent of a toddler looking for some advice. We have close relatives who get on brilliantly with my DC and they are keen to have DC to stay for a couple of days. This would be lovely for everyone involved, except that they have a lively collie.

Dog is about 2 or 3, doesn't live with children, strong herding instinct, and has been known to nip (definitely when a puppy, not sure about now). DC is too young to understand how to interact with a dog safely or reliably follow instructions. We've always kept DC entirely separate from the dog on shorter visits. The dog is very much 'their baby' and I'm just not sure I can rely on them to be hyper-vigilant over a day or two.

Are there any reasonable measures/rules I can ask for to be put in place for a weekend? Or am I best off just saying DC can't come to stay (at least not until they're older) if the dog is going to be there?

It's not a contradiction at all.

I'm saying all dogs should be supervised but I would be particularly wary of a collie because of their breed traits.

How far away do the relatives live? How quickly could you get there, or to the nearest hospital, if the dog attacked your child? Those would be questions I would ask, as well as all the obvious ones.

I never put my DC at risk in this way, although sadly both were subject to unprovoked dog attacks outdoors when they were young.

I would not leave any toddler with any dog owner who is not vigilant around both child and dog.

4 of my collies would be absolutely fine around a toddler the other ones would be stressed.

The young lab however would knock over the toddler in his rush to give the toddler a kiss - a way bigger risk.

I agree that it is not the breed that is the issue but the individual dog and children (especially novel children to the dog)

No way. Either your relatives put the dog in kennels for the days your DC is there or they do not stay until they are much older.

The biggest risk with dogs and small children is the child being knocked over and occasionally trampled which i think is overlooked. Bites are rarer but more serious.

You've only got to look at the number of dog incidents happening at the moment to know this isn't a good idea. Plus the dog has a history of nipping!

My dogs are phenomenal around young children, never nervous, completely calm, patient and are not in the least bit reactive to noise, movements etc. they've never growled, never nipped or bitten or come close to anything like that. However I still watch them (actually more the children) like an absolute hawk and never allow ANY rough handling. If there was the slightest indication they were uncomfortable they would be removed immediately.

Essentially I'm hyper vigilant, even with dogs who are pretty much 100% trustworthy. Can you say the same about these people? Probably not, most people aren't imo.

Blimey these would not be the questions I would be asking.

I would be asking questions to totally prevent the nearest hospital visit.

Actually I would not be asking questions I would be clearly stating what I would want to happen if the visit went ahead.

eg Never have the dog and child in a room together - until they have been assessed and this may never be a good idea.

Have a stair gate between the two.

Initially have someone with the dog and another adult with the child. Adult with dog can be doing de sensitising training and child not to interact with the dog.

Where you put the dog at night to prevent access to the child
Where will the dog be when child is playing in the garden etc

Or equally I would let my child sleepover if the owners of the dog are not suggesting this things themselves after a frank and honest conversation.

Thanks everyone. My instinct was very much to say no to the visit but I wasn't sure if I was being overly protective as I'm not used to dogs in the house. Good to hear from collie/dog owners in general that you also think it's not safe.

Hard pass re any dogs, but especially a collie.

OP I work as a newspaper reporter and I cover a hugely disproportionate number of dog attacks where children are hurt by dogs belonging to their grandparents. There are so many things that can go wrong. No way would I allow my kids to stay there, esp with a collie. They’re not a predictable breed.

They are an extremely predictable breed in that they were bred to herd moving things, and can use their teeth to do this. They are no more unpredictable than others. In fact all dogs are predictable if people learnt how to read their body language and in particular the subtleties as that is when best to prevent incidents.

I don't own a collie but I have trained them. No. I'd not consider it.

Not now, no. If you want toddler to be able to stay in the future, you need to work up to it. Visit regularly and allow the toddler and dog to interact. Get them used to each other slowly. Make sure dog can get away if it wants to. See for yourself how the relatives handle the dog/toddler together, and how careful they are about not leaving them. If after lots of visits you are happy with both dog/toddler interaction, and behaviour of relatives, go for it.

The fact that the collie nipped as a pup is irrelevant. Pups need to be trained! If it has nipped since it turned one or so, that is relevant.

Well-trained happy collies are in general good with children they are used to (as are many other breeds). Obviously it goes without saying that you don't leave them unsupervised, but that's the same for all dogs.

When relatives with small children visit our collie he is kept under close supervision, or when he gets fed up with being pestered he's put upstairs for some peace and quiet. He is good with the children, but he wasn't raised with little ones so I simply can't fully trust him (he's not overly keen with being brushed by dolls brushes, dressed up or any of the other games the kids want him to participate with - ball however he enjoys, over and over again!

If the dog owners are trusted to keep them both separate then yes. But as a multiple dog owner over 25 years this was always a family rule. The only dogs who would be close to a toddler were ones raised together and never ever unsupervised.

The issue you have is the people not the dog - so in my mind there is only one rule/demand/condition - dog and toddler are kept separate. Toddler and dog can admire each other through glass/ or on a walk - dog on lead/toddler with adult - in arms/buggy etc.

@JaniceBattersby

I disagree, collies are a very predictable breed, they are very set in their ways. It's toddlers that aren't predictable and there lays the issue. My ddog is incredibly predictable, sleeps 20 hours a day, chases a ball for the remainder

actually @gogohmm you raise an excellent point. As the toddler gets older modelling positive interactions - e.g. ball games. is an excellent interactive activity that when properly monitored by an adult can be very beneficial in children learning to respect and interact with dogs.

I had a collie who hated children and he was aggressive towards other dogs as well. He was such a lively dog he was hard to control.

Collie owner here too, and IME toddlers and collies don't mix. Your child needs to be about 6-8 and understand collies are not playthings.
However don't make it about their dog will hurt your kid, collie owners can get very protective, say it would be very unfair of you to let DC stay as he doesn't yet understand dogs and their possible behaviour around him, and it would be very unfair to inflict your child on the collie for such a long period of time till he is older.

Not a chance in hell! You are clearly worried so listen to your instincts.

My 6 year old grandson is never left alone with my yorkie just in case. Never ever.

Our collie is honestly the best dog with the three of us at home and her ‘people’ (those she knows well). She is not very tolerant of things outside her comfort zone. We are constantly training and trying to build her resilience and working on decreasing her reactivity. It’s our responsibility to manage her comfort zone for her so she doesn’t have to. And that means not having hyper 10 year old boys on play dates when she’s at home and arranging to meet friends and family with young children out of the house rather than in.

Nope. Colleagues nephew was badly mauled by PIL's "friendly" collie. They're very strong dogs and as PPS have pointed out, need careful handling and excellent training. Even then it's not safe for toddlers.