Absolute Dogs training - opinions?

[Tygertiger]

I bought the Sexier Than a Squirrel course and haven’t got very far with it (I think it’s because I need to get into a routine to watch the videos regularly- I prefer reading info to watching it) and I also feel a bit overwhelmed with all the info in terms of ebooks, podcasts etc. But people in the FB group seem to get lots of good results using their methods. Can I get any views from any MNetters who’ve used it? Main things I want to tackle are DDog not pulling like a train, running off for miles as soon as his lead is off (can’t really let him off at the mo and I would love to be able to) and having really good recall. I am just struggling to see how playing tug with him will ultimately improve on that as much as he loves it inside, when we’re out the environment is so much more interesting than I am!

What dog have you got? I’ve seen numerous ads for this (and other similar things) but I’m dubious as they all seem to feature east to train dogs in their adverts (and not naughty schnauzers)

I would say that signing up for a good, modern reward based dog training in person class in your area would be money better spent.

Tug isn't a think for all dogs - Absolute dogs is run by people with collies and cockers ;) I have direct experience of the trainers and they're great business people and great agility competitors.

If you have a look for a club that teaches the KC Good citizen scheme if covers both these things.

I think if you're going to pay for something you're better off spending money on in person training. I downloaded a free course from Absolute dogs and there was no information in there you couldn't find for free.

Also nothing to suggest what to do if your dog hasn't read the manual! When younger we needed to walk a fine balance with my pup, some of the absolute dogs games wound her up so much she'd totally lose it and start nipping at arms etc. There wasn't much between "not interested" and "way too excited and out of control". To be fair, some of the exercises we did with our in person trainer had the same effect but there was someone on hand to suggest different strategies.

Absolute dogs has very good focus games and basic training principles. It is slightly different from training a specific behaviour but it is fab at teaching focus with you and your dog.

The presentation is extremely cheesy but the games work (for all breeds) and work with dogs predatory patterns.

Give it a go. Dont worry about watching all the videos first. Watch one and spend a few days or week on the games and you will see a difference.

However like all training it needs to be done and it needs to be done a lot of times.

The orientation game alone will make a huge difference to your dog if he just legs it when the lead is off.

The training theory behind the games is classical conditioning eg the dog learns a default behaviour and will offer this instead of an alternative behaviour.

Start the games at home in a quiet place, move them to your garden and then you will be able to do the games in distracting environments.

Give it a go and stick with it

Thanks all. I have a sprocker from working parents.

I’ve done 1:1 classes and am on a waiting list for a group class but there aren’t many IMDT/APDT trainers where I live unfortunately.

They don't need to be registered but you do need to make sure they are using modern, scientific and reward (and choice) based methods in their training.

I am a trainer in a volunteer club. Only one of us is registered (who has a business outside the club) but all of us use the reward based training. This would involve going to watch a class and see what you think.

In our area all the gundog trainers use fear, intimidation and punishment. I would be reluctant to recommend any.

If you go down the KC GC route then all their trainers should be teaching this way (I teach agility not obedience but my pup is going through Bronze currently)

As a general rule:

• all training starts in an environment the dog finds pretty mundane. When the behaviour works perfectly in that environment, you start to introduce it to increasingly exciting environments, taking small steps up at a time.
• as dogs get older, the outside tends to get less exciting to them. Obviously, there is huge variety between individuals here but generally they accustom to the outside a bit more so it becomes a less strong lure.

I think game-based training has a lot of merit for welfare, relationship and efficiency reasons. I know AD use a lot of game-based methods and so, for that reason, I would expect them to get reasonable results with the minimum of risk.

How successful there specific method is with your dog will vary depending on the details of how its applied, your dog's personality, your dog's breed (to a lesser extent), the environment you are working in and the consistency of application.

If you're up for some reading, there is a nice article here on springers that will apply to your sprocker: totallygundogs.com/the-trouble-with-springers-part-one/

Just try to ignore the slightly smug tone

Hi! I've just started it. I also don't have time to watch a video a day but that doesn't bother me. I do it at my own pace.

It works for me and my dog. Most training it about training you isn't it? I've had a personal trainer out and they were great too.

I take excellent care of my dog. Her needs are met and exceeded. However I'm very aware that I'm not a very exciting person and I don't think I was playing enough with her - yes we played tug and some scent work but looking back it wasn't enough.

Even if I had to spend £16.20 to be told by 2 cheesy-ass presenters that set my teeth on edge that "I wasn't playing with my dog enough and here are 6 games to play with her" I'm happy.

No, I don't think it's going to solve my recall issues but it's given me some (albeit obvious) strategies to help. I also like watching the videos of them playing out the games with different dogs and how to adapt them.

Full disclosure, I have a very playful golden retriever so I think the perfect dog for their model.

I'm enjoying it and would recommend.

Aside from anything else, playing games with your dog will improve the bond between you, so that your dog will have more focus on you outside. A lot of really excellent trainers use this approach.

I have high-drive gundogs and getting their prey drive under control is a job in itself, and takes a long time and a lot of input. But basic recall (away from sniffing, or in from the garden, or back to the car at the end of a walk) and lead walking shouldn't be too tricky.

Something else you can do is find ways to keep your dog's brain busy. For a spaniel, chuck some tennis balls into long grass and get him to hunt them up and bring them to you. Teach a basic retrieve and then make it more complex - he waits while you throw, you throw two things (like canvas training dummies) in different directions and send him to one at a time, you drop a ball and walk away with him and send him back gradually increasing the distance, you get him to sit and throw dummies over his head as you walk round him and then get him to bring them to you one at a time. This will give him a level of fulfillment that just running about sniffing doesn't provide, and should make him easier to handle.

All the gundog trainers I know, including the ones I train with, use balanced methods (rewards and punishments, but 90%+ is rewards, and I count a punishment as a check on the lead, for example). If you are not comfortable with that, that is your shout entirely, but the dogs I know who are trained this way are confident, happy and fulfilled and have excellent relationships with their handlers.

I think game based training is great but also found online training difficult to engage with - that's not a criticism of Absolute Dogs. Humans like dogs learn in different ways.

For me learning the underlying principles helps, and then topping up with suggestions for specific games which you can often find online in articles or videos. Dog Parkour is a good book and we found lots of videos of specific games on YouTube. It definitely helped us sort out pulling.

So you might find the approach is great for your sprocker but this isn't the right way for you to learn it. Tbh the best thing about game based learning is it's hard to go wrong. Once you learn a bunch of games you both enjoy they become mutually reinforcing, unlike things like clicker training where I think in person is best because there's an art to timing it right and the rate of reinforcement.

I have found Adolescent Dogs to be much better - less cheesy and some of the "games" on the AD Squirrel course just wound my terrier up.

I bought one of their courses and found it okay, got me playing with the dog more and more engagement but fundamentally didn't solve our issues with recall and certainly didn't make me sexier than a squirrel, pheasant, deer etc you get the idea..

My issue with buying a solely online course is that the trainer hasn't met you or your dog and they use lots of marketing, bright colours and cheesy loud happy voices to entice people. Sprockers are very different dogs to say a show bred retriever etc.

I also have a drivey gun dog, I went to a trainer who had lots of letters after her name and 'awards' and bombarded her business page full of anti-balanced trainer bumpf. She didn't have a clue. She actually did some of her 'training' with these people online I went to a session 1:1, then got in touch a few months later asking for a further session because we were having problems, she directed me to an online course by Simone mueller, £90 down and no further on I had had enough. She didn't know what she was talking about clearly but didnt have it in her to say as much. I would advise you to choose your trainers wisely and ask to see their dogs. Most Gundog trainers do use reward based training and add in some correction, I don't have an issue with that. My dog is a much much happier dog now.

If your trainer can't tell you they are out of their depth, walk away. If your trainer suggest you spay your dog because it's 'all hormonally driven' walk away. I wouldn't make the same mistake of shutting myself off to other methods again.

It's definitely worth doing. I'm a professional dog walker who's USP is walking gundogs. These games make our walks much more fun & engaging than your average dog walker.

The gundog trainer I have used was brilliant, mainly reward with mild correction (check on lead as stated above). Certainly no fear based training at all.

Oh a really good resource I have found is the ladies working dog group. Fab instructors and really good online community.

I have loads of their courses and whilst I think the games are good it doesn’t replace proper training from a qualified trainer - reward based etc positive as I found I needed someone to show me what to do with my dog instead of playing games - that helps with relationship and gives something for a clever dog to do above walks etc but it needs to go alongside f2f training.

my sister thankfully is a qualified dog trainer so she’s helped but is very busy so need to pay for some sessions to update some things, show me what to do so I can go off and practise myself.

I’m doing the same course, it’s ok and the games are interesting

I also have a sprocker

i have a great trainer (very well recommended no idea on qualifications but great reviews so gave them a go) and had great success with 121 and group lessons but the training isn’t ‘fun’ compared to absolute dogs

force free gun dog training & total recall books might suit you as both fab books and well broken down?

for me i take the bits I like from different trainers. I could see a absolute dogs making our Sprocker to aroused but because of other training I know how to mix up what I want to a achieve

For pulling when being walked - watch some of the south end dog training videos ( I think I’ll need to don my tin hat for saying that!!) but it’s about engagement not distance, so you keep mixing it up throwing treats changing direction etc I’ve kind of made my own plan for based around that and some other tips,

also the force free gun dog has great ideas around training for off lead with a long line and some other tips too

Thanks all. Really helpful posts. I have the Force Free Gundog and Total Recall books and I’m in the ladies gundog group too but I need to actually read/watch everything (I have ADHD and manage to hold things together at work but dog training is apparently where my traits really show 😆)

Have a look at the gundog app. Positive based, specific training for working breeds. Learn at your own pace.

I have a positive reinforcement gundog trainer and she's brilliant, dog has come on loads

I have an adolescent spaniel and really like games based training but I can't cope with the Absolute Dogs presentation style!
Fenzi Dog Sports Academy has online courses which cover games based training but with a less high octane style - mostly short written lectures released a couple a week over 6 weeks, generally with one or two short videos per lecture to watch showing the exercise (calmly...), with access after the course so you can work at your own pace.
Or maybe try a book if that suits you better. As well as those mentioned above, these two books are fab for spaniels (both the authors have cockers and it's all positive reinforcement based): Mission Control by Jane Ardern and
Whose Walk is it Anyway? by Leanne Smith.
Also Leslie McDevitt's "Control Unleashed" for pattern games

AD are very good and games are fun. They work the outcomes are positive.
Just follow one session and practice for a few days before going onto next game.
STTS covers a lot of the struggles most people have with their dogs.
I just do two 5 min sessions a day.
Look at some of the freebie videos too on their you tube site. You can teach a lot of new skills from them.
Continuity is key, just tell yourself 10 mins a day is nothing compared to having a dog that listens and is more fun to be with.

Honestly the training works for any dog. I have a 40k plus Guardian breed rescue.
People say the breed is untrainable due to their intelligence. Not true my dog has changed so much, I am so proud of her.
You have to be consistent with dog training for it to work no matter what method you use.
AD make it fun for you and dog creating a better way of learning.
I really like the games.
Look at the freebies on their you tube and try them first to see how you get on, that's what I did before deciding.

I definitely wouldn’t be buying any of their training programmes now that the woman running it has admitted to basically having a puppy farm :-(

TUG-E-NUFF is not involved at all with the Absolute Dogs puppy farming money making scandal. And should no way be linked.