AIBU to tell you about the XL Bully I met today?

[Frequency]

I suspect I am BU and that this thread will descend into breed-bashing madness but as an antithesis to all the recent big dog-hating threads I'm going to tell you anyway.

I was walking my Beagle cross and Chihuahua when I noticed it walking with two (stereotypical bull breed owner looking) young men. I pulled my dogs to the side of the path partly because we were being harassed by an offlead obese chocolate lab owned by an old lady who either didn't notice or didn't care that her dog kept getting tangled in my Beagle's lead, and partly because my Beagle is a pup and I like greetings to be controlled as he can get over-excited.

The lads politely asked if the dogs could greet each other and I agreed. The first thing I noticed was how utterly stunning this dog was. It had a gorgeous, shiny blue coat and was clearly very well taken care of.

The next thing I noticed was how impeccably behaved it was. It stood between it's owner's legs as it was told to and politely greeted both my dogs with perfect, relaxed body language and didn't bat an eyelid when the obese lab tried to mount it.

Its behaviour was so calm and confident that my chihuahua, who had so far hidden from all the offlead spaniels, JRTs, and Labs who tried to greet her, ventured out from under the Beagle and said hello to it.

The lads told me it was only 11 months old and they've been socializing and clicker training it every day since it was 12 weeks old and it's just passed its Good Citizen bronze award.

It's the first time I ever met one of these in RL and I am besotted. It made a refreshing change to all the "friendly family" dogs who run at my on-lead dogs without invitation and jump all over us. I would much rather encounter a hundred of these dogs than one more out-of-control, off-lead springer spaniel.

Anecdata, I know, but it does support the theory that it is the owner and not the breed to blame for the recent rise in attacks by these dogs.

Glad to read this story. As often said on MN, it’s not bad dogs, it’s bad owners. One of my neighbours has got an XL bully and it seems a gentle dog.

that it is the owner and not the breed to blame for the recent rise in attacks by these dogs.

That is such a sweeping statement and one that is thrown around way too often.
The breeding has a bigger percentage impact on a reason why a dog is aggressive.

Have you got evidence that there has been an increase in attacks by "these dogs"?

Sorry OP but yep your thread it totally anecdotal as you say and no conclusion can be drawn from the one meeting.

It is definitely bad owners not bad dogs but you can be a bad owner of a Maltese and generally get away with it, It is bad owners of certain breeds that are unfortunately a recipe for disaster.

I loved reading this. My mum's neighbours had two HUGE Rottweilers who were so calm and well trained but to look at could be intimidating. One loved my dad and when my dad wasn't well suffering with cancer he sat next to him with his head gently resting on his knee like he knew my dad wasn't.

YABU to call an XL bully "utterly stunning".

They are hideous. Absolutely hell-dog hideous. They should never have been brought into existence.

They are lovely dogs.

i think the problem is they are often status symbols and not trained or treated well like this one (hats off to those lads) and if they do attack, as most breeds might in the same treatment, they are so powerful they cause massive damage. So yes bad owners again.

i met one on a train recently, lovely boy, poor lamb had had his ears cropped though 😟

I absolutely agree with this, however, I do find that larger dogs are more likely to be well-trained and socialised than toy breeds.

I also agree that breeding and genetics do play a part eg you'll be be driven to distraction trying to teach a collie not to herd, but dogs are not generally bred for aggression toward people. It's not a behaviour trait that commonly exists in any breed.

Totally agree. Lovely story about encountering two dodgy looking blokes who were not the wrong uns they appeared to be but the dog sounds terrifying, regardless of its behaviour.

Bad owners have badly behaved dogs, it's just large badly behaved dogs are more likely to be dangerous. The worst behaved dogs I meet are chihuahuas and dachshunds around here, a dachshund bit my collie last night in the pub actually, pretty sure if he had got aggressive back it would have been about the vicious collie when he was the victim, no apology from owner either

It’s all owners. If the lady with the lab had owned the Bully it would have been a nightmare. If the owner of the bully had owned the lab it would have been well behaved. It’s the effort the owner puts in and whether they take their commitment seriously.

But as pp’s have said it is obviously preferable for bad owners to have a shihtzu rather than a Rottweiler. Toss it any way you like but a badly behaved shihtzu just isn’t a problem the way a badly behaved Rottweiler is. They are far far less likely to be able to seriously damage anybody.

but dogs are not generally bred for aggression toward people. It's not a behaviour trait that commonly exists in any breed. Aggression is a symptom of many things - true aggression is rare but breeders do breed for aggression. You have a very naive view of dogs if you think aggression is not in dog breeds.

However dogs in pain will show aggression fearful dogs will show aggression for example so poor breeding will encourage a lot of issues that will show as aggression in dogs.

It is not all owners.

I disagree. Obviously.

It's not all owners. Different breeds have different temperaments and predispositions which reflect what they've been bred for. A border collie will retain their instinct to herd no matter the owner. A dachshund will retain their instinct to dig no matter the owner.

It's in their DNA and you if honestly think you can love the violence out of a dog bred for fighting you are seriously naive.

An XL bully (or mix) has been responsible for 7 out of 16 fatal dog attacks in the last 3 years. So just under 50%. I wonder why?

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_Kingdom

Breeders do not breed for aggression. Idiots who want to look hard and have no business owning a pet gnat much less a dog, breed for aggression. As long as you buy from a reputable breeder, you can be certain that your dog has not been bred with people-aggression in mind.

No dog breed has been historically bred to show aggression toward people.

These lads wanted to stud their dog. They paid a bomb to get him from champion bloodlines, which is why they wanted him to be well-socialized and well-behaved. It's the only way he would be allowed to register as a stud with the breed club. I don't agree with their choice to stud him. I don't agree with breeding as a whole, but at least they'd done their research and were being responsible about it.

They sound like good owners. THEY are the rare breed.

To counteract your story I unfortunately witness an XL bully kill a Yorkshire terrier at my local park. It was horrid and made local news and was all over social media. The owner has a criminal past 😢 (once it all came out in the papers) it was truly horrific for the family who lost their little yorkie like that.

Breeders do not breed for aggression.

Yes, they do. You're incredibly naive if you think otherwise.

I know many amazing bull breeds. Far more stable than other more popular breeds. But breeding does play a huge part not just training and socialising. That said I know carefully bred dogs who have been a bite risk despite the owners doing everything right. Dogs are individuals. You can lessen the risk of problems by nature and nurture but there are still no guarantees. Any parent will tell you that.

Frequency what is your involvement with dogs?

Some dogs are bred for aggression.

Some dogs are so poorly bred that aggression is common

Poor breeders of XL Bully’s do breed for aggression , they also chop ears etc , it’s not all down to owners , sadly for this breed there are far too many of the wrong type of people breeding them .

Re wanting to breed from their dogs is also really questionable. They are not good breeders. Anyone want to breed a XL Bully dog is not in it for the welfare of the dog. They are a breed riddled with health issues. They are a breed that does need very careful handling as the damage they can do is massive.

They do not need to have a well behaved dog to register as a stud dog. There are very few "requirements" . They just need to have health tests but this is not obligatory. Temperament is not an issue at all.

You met an 11 month old puppy interesting to see how things progress as the dog gets older.....

“That said I know carefully bred dogs who have been a bite risk despite the owners doing everything right. Dogs are individuals.”

I’m going to nitpick slightly with that... I’m on my second human reactive dog in a row (not on purpose, lol) first was because of medical issues, current is a rescue whose problems weren’t apparent until after he’d come home.

The behavioural issues aren’t caused by me, but if they bit someone, that is on me. There’s no bite risk because I make sure there’s never any chance of it happening.

You sound beyond naïve…

a breeder is not a special protected job title. It is literally anyone who gets a dog pregnant in order to sell puppies. Some of those people are absolute morons and some are not totally immoral. You haven’t just met some sort of unicorn of dog breeders just because they do clicker training

Also, there are no such things as ‘champion lines’ for XL bullies. They aren’t a registered breed, they don’t have anything approaching a breed society. There are a few enterprising people who have set up various breed clubs, mostly to promote their own kennels

Any ‘championships’ are little more than knuckle draggers standing around in a pub car park with their dogs and informally declaring a winner. This isn’t based on any sort of breed standards, nor genetic or health testing.

You’ve fallen hook, line and sinker for their sales patter, based on them having a dog which is barely above average for obedience, albeit it one which dispelled your preconceptions.
But you’re putting it on a pedestal for no apparent reason

More than half of the fatal dog attacks in the U.K. in the last 15yrs have been American bullys. Most of them babies amd
toddlers but adults too.

While I know that with a confident experienced owner they can be beautifully natured I think they should be banned.

Just last August someone was killed walking their do in the park because some 20yr old lad thought he could handle a dog he didn’t understand.

Collies who have never met sheep will herd chicken and children

American bull terriers are bred to round up bulls… they are not family pets and anyone who chooses to take that risk with their child is a fool.