Please talk to me about dog food!

[BasilBuff]

We've recently got a ten-week-old Cavalier puppy. The breeder had her on a mostly grain-based dry food, plus some grain-free Butchers wet food which we've continued for the first two weeks (phasing out the dry food as I'm concerned about the grain and allergies, increasing the wet and introducing veg).

I'm keen that she has the most nutritious and appropriate diet for her health and breed, but I'm quite confused about the best thing to do. We'd assumed that raw food, plus veg, and maybe some scrambled eggs would be a good way to go, with a good variety of foods in her diet. However, the vet advised a dry food diet for teeth and solid poo (several friends feed their dogs exclusively on dry kibble too) and to limit variety completely so she isn't fussy (so feeding the same flavour/type of food three times a day).

I'm struggling to see how it's healthy for the dog to eat nothing but some dry kibble three times a day (it feels like feeding a child nothing but processed cereal), but I am a novice owner and would love advice on how we should be approaching this.

Any experience and advice very welcome!

Given cavalier's tendencies towards heart problems I would say it's vital that the dog is on a diet with grain.
The people with the right answers about what a dog should be fed are vets. They will recommend purina or one like it. A scientifically proven diet.
My dog eats Purina kibble and has variety in her diet with treats and chews.

Our dog is raw fed and absolutely loves it. Nonsense what your vet says about poops, his are tiny and firm and as a pp said, barely smell. The first time his dog walker took him out she messaged asking what I feed him because “his poops are amazing!” 😂

He is a greedy little bugger so we add veg to each meal and also give him natural treats, rabbit ears and chicken feet are his faves and really good for his teeth. We don’t give him really chewy things like pigs ears any more as a couple of times he chewed lumps off and tried to swallow them while resulting is lots of wretching and me having to prise his mouth open to pull them out!

I agree with you about the monotony of dry food. I once read that not only can your dog smell the food/stew you are cooking, but they can smell every single ingredient in it as well.

Im less keen on raw food for the hygiene re licking as well. I think there are good suggestions on here, and it’s possible to ring the changes of taste, smell and texture with treats and extras (carrots etc). I read that fridge cold food has less smell, so like to serve it a little warmer. Works with cats as well.

Just make sure you and the children know which foods are poisonous or bad for dogs (grapes, chocolates, onions etc).

Don’t forget manufactured dog food was only invented in the last century? Before that dogs eat scraps from the table. I know that wasn’t always best for them and I guess that’s why raw food is considered the closest to a natural diet.

@letsghostdance can you explain more about your comment re grains? Which grains for heart health?

Jumping back in! Grain free diets have some critics due to heart health and aren’t always suited to less active dogs.
However I’d not be feeding my dogs hills or purina which is generally what they peddle. There are far better foods than that. Vets are not experts in nutrition

@letsghostdance I’d respectfully disagree with you. I have found many vets knowledge on dog food is completely out of date. Plys they are incentivised to promote brands like Purina and Royal Canin which both actually score very poorly on the nutritional scale.

@letsghostdance I understand what you are saying, but I felt the vet's advice was completely generic and not based on nutrition, so I'm not sure I agree. It felt like the health visitor saying 'just use whichever formula is the cheapest'. Didn't inspire great confidence.

My cavalier was fed on raw most days as recommended by her breeder - we had constant issues with upset stomach - mucus and blood etc. Kept on with it for years as it's supposed to be 'better' for her, and assumed she's been eating stuff in the garden to cause it. Vets did tests but couldn't find anything.

During Covid it was really difficult to get raw regularly where we live so we put her on supermarket tins(!) and mixer biscuits - her stomach is totally stable now, poos are a bit larger but less issues with scooting now too.

Occasionally when raw feeding I did have to use tins when on holiday - went for Lily's Kitchen, but they really upset her stomach as too rich - had to get some generic biscuits to 'dry her up' a bit!

She's 10 now, seems to have a cast
Iron stomach having eaten/stolen this year whole box of malteasers wrapped in two bags, a whole 5 pack of Cadburys fudges, and a wrapped Christmas pudding!

Not all kibble is created equal, and to be honest all about dog food is ok, but their rating seem to be based on protein content and not much else - some of them can still be questionable and not all dogs require a super high protein diet.

You get what you pay for, for the most part also. Standard kibble is 'extruded' so swells and floats, whereas a cold pressed 'raw' kibble digests like raw (much quicker) and can be mixed with fresh and raw. You can buy lots of frozen raw stuff, which we sometimes just give frozen, although we are a large breed house.

Dry food for teeth is a good consideration, as a lot of chews designed for teeth health are poor quality nutritionally. Bones, charcoal and seaweed supplements are good for this, but again breed specific. However ours are trained (ahem.. its a pain in the ass) to allow actual toothbrush teeth cleaning with doggy toothpaste, and if you start early and be consistent this is perfectly fine.

Don't get too hung up on grains - these foods are likely to have a lower protein ratio, but not all dogs suffer from grain allergies, and meat protein allergies are very common also. My advise would be to buy either a wet or dry, or combi feed using a single protein source with identifiable ingredients - for example a 'with chicken' food may be 10% chicken and 30% 'meat derived protein' so in reality you don't know what you're feeding. Fresh veg has very few calories so great for adding in as extra food allowance for extra fibre.

Allergies show themselves with poor digestion (bloating/smelly gas/noisy tummies/runny often mustard coloured poop) as well as skin irritation sometimes.

A lot is just trial and error, but if a dog likes a food and is content on it, it will eat it repeatedly without issue. Sometimes trying to make it more varied can create fussiness and a rod for your own back. Plus if you're worried about allergies it will be an awful lot more to work out what is safe and what isn't if you're regularly feeding 20 different things or whatever. It's trail and error unfortunately!!

Most dogs get a runny bum from cows milk goats milk is easier for them to digest. Grains have NO place in a dogs diet at all feeding them for health is crap because in the long run your dog will get ill

My neighbour has 3 cavaliers and they are fed a raw food diet. They do need grain in their diet, some breeds need it. Raw food has more nutrients in it so their poos are smaller and firmer than on kibble and strangely smell less too. We use Luna and Me, it's delivered frozen in burgers that you defrost so you need lots of freezer space. We supplement with things like rabbit ears, sprats, salmon skin chews and raw bones. When I buy chicken thighs for a meal, I debone them and freeze the bones. They can be eaten from frozen or defrosted.

Have a look at Nature Diet @BasilBuff , it’s good quality and reasonably priced .

Why not just follow the experienced advice of the breeder, and your vet, who
both told you what to feed the dog on. They know what it needs.

She's a very young pup, you've not had her long, don't start fancying up her diet ; let her stay of the food the breeder used, that she is familiar with since weaning. Dogs like routine meals, theythrive on consistent habits, knowing what to expect. That builds a strong healthy regular digestive system.

Don't become one of those "performative dog owners ".. like performative parents . Please, let it be A DOG. Don't treat or feed it like a child or a human, feed it like a dog because its a different species, with entirely different physiology, digestive system, dentition.

@HanSB where can I find info that Cavaliers need grain for heart health? I have read this a few times now but I'd like to understand what/how much/why. The last thing I want is a dog with allergies so I'm concerned to tread carefully.

Personally I think dry food is such a miserable life for a dog! I feed my dog Butternut, it’s by far the best imo.

@2bazookas the breeder also told me to give her a digestive biscuit (human) for afternoon tea every day. So, yes, I'm questioning her nutritional advice.

There's nothing performative about wanting to feed dogs and children the most nutritious and suitable diet for their long term health.

The vet gave no advice apart from the words 'dry food' - nothing more specific.

we have a nearly 2 year old lab and she came on dry food, can’t remember which but it really didn’t agree with her. We tried a couple of types and I made my own food for a while but in the end we have stuck with forthglade wet food.

It suits her and I think (hope) is a good food. The vet said at a recent appointment to keep her on whatever she is eating as her coat and skin are in great condition. Forthglade also do a cold pressed dry food but I’ve not tried it.

Don't consult vets on feed. You have to do hour own research.

#your

There’s studies showing that grain free foods with things like pea protein correlate with heart problems. If you google grain free dog food heart you’d probably find it tbh.

Grain is a fairly common intolerance or allergy... but, that doesn’t make it a bad ingredient because most dogs are still fine on it.

I prefer if it is in a food to be lower down in the ingredients, but I’m less fussy than some about dog food. I like to be able to read the ingredients list and go, yep, they’re food, other than that I go by what is affordable, easy to get and goes down well with the dog. Current dog is on grain free, but that’s just cause he’s a real picky eater and he seems to like it.

Grains are an inflammatory food for dogs and can cause problems if fed a heavy grain based diet. Alot of people say there dog has been fed bla bla all there life and are great... Yet the dog stinks, dull coat, huge smelly poos, bad breath ect and alot of people think that is how dogs when in reality that's definitely not.

@TheFlis12345 Unfortunately I'll disagree with you right back. I would only ever feed my dog a WSAVA compliant food because that's where the research and the science is. I won't feed them raw because very few vets recommend it. It really is the main criteria to be concerned about when deciding what to feed your dog.

@BasilBuff there's some evidence that grain free diets can lead to DCM. If the dog has a grain allergy that's a reason to remove grain from the diet. Other than that, the evidence is better to keep the grain in the diet. Honestly, look at Purina or Royal Canin or Hills. Ask yourself who you trust more - vets and organisations that assess dog food or random folk on the internet telling you that their dog's coat was shiny when they were on a raw diet. Ask, why do so few vets recommend raw? It can't all be a conspiracy.

It's not the same because formula is highly regulated and they really are all the same. Kibble for dogs is far less regulated and you can get some that are shockingly bad

Thanks Lastqueen - I've ordered a sample puppy bag from Huntland.

And Idratherbepaddleboarding would you mind if I used your code to try Butternut please?

OP as regards natural chews, we got a fright after we'd had our pup just two days; the pet shop had recommended a braided cow skin sort of chew - he loved it and went at it like a mad thing. I was just saying to DH that it was shrinking fast amd I'd better get it off him when he gulped down a piece about 6cm long. It could have had sharp edges and we were worried so ended up at the vet hospital having him looked at .. I'm not using that sort of chew again.
Having said that, the buffalo ears and hooves are briliant for keeping him content in the evening. I have a fish wrap thing in the box but the smell is horrendous. Saving that one for an emergency ..