growling lurcher - only at me

[Acorncat1]

Hello all,
Luckily it's been awhile since I've posted here. You all were sanity savers for the first month of crazy lurcher life.
So now I wanted to ask, our lurcher (Male, 8 months) sometimes gets onto the couch, where he's not allowed, for now. My husband will pull him down by his collar and there's no growling but when I do it he's gives me grief, not really growling but kind of whining growling. He also did it it the other day when I was taking something he'd nicked out of the bin off him in his crate.
I do a good amount of training with him and enrichment but am a bit stumped by this.
I've read online to use lures instead of your hand to get him off the couch and I'm training the leave it but it's early days. I'm just afraid if we do it that way he might snap at one of the kids or something if they push him away if he's jumping up on them or something...
Any ideas???

Don't pull him by the collar! He's saying he doesn't like it, which is fair enough. I'd make it out of bounds or use a training lead in the house if necessary.

Slip lead. No chat just 'Down' and gently get him off. Remove him from the room for a few mins.
Our dhusky tried her luck when dd sat next or her or tried to get her off. Kept her off for years tbh! Our Lurchers do lie on but actually like a stroke as they nap!!

Nobody should pull him by his collar at all, he should be told to get down and then given a treat.

Stop pulling him by his collar. Nobody should be handling him like that.

His growling is his way of telling you, loud and clear, that he doesn't like it - and if you continue to ignore him, you'll get bitten.

If he doesn't get off the sofa on command, you need to have a house line attached to him and use that to gently encourage him off.

If he has something he shouldn't have, again, pull him away gently using the house line, or offer him a swap for a higher value item instead. If you keep taking things off him with no warning and with no reward, his growls will escalate and turn to bites.

I think you need to get on top of this sooner rather than later, and also I would not treat until the dog is totally off the sofa. I think you use a very sharp, loud and authoritative voice with an "off" command and point to the floor. Really mean it, no dithering or faffing about or enticing with treats. Once off then reward.

I had this issue with my dog and she is a 6 stone lump, was really grumbling and growling at me at about the same age when I tried to get her off the sofa. I was asking calmly and negotiating with her, and trying to entice with treats, it just got worse and worse. One day she really frightened me and I sort of shouted GET OFF! and pointed at the floor. I think she must have been a bit shocked and got off the sofa and it's never been an issue since. I think the tone of voice and the commanding way you say it really helps.

That's brilliant, thanks so much. I was thinking that we shouldn't be pulling him by the collar but I needed it confirmed. I wonder why though he doesn't growl at my husband, only me? I'll get a house lead and attach it, thanks.
He's not allowed on the sofa because of this behaviour but sometimes he gets into the sitting room.
I do take him to training but here in ireland we're years behind the uk in how we treat and manage our dogs. We don't have a local puppy training class or any agility near us, which I think he'd love.
He's currently driving me mad, I'm trying to study and he's just sitting whining at me. He's had an hour running around this morning on a forest walk and an hour sleep. He'll be the end of me. That said, our 15 year old was way worse...

Just to say too, I do tell him get down but he ignores me..

I absoutely use a very loud, firm 'OFF' but nothing doing...

There's all sorts of reasons he may only be growling with you, but your husband still needs to stop pulling him about by his collar. As it stands, you're all ignoring his growling so one day he'll get fed up of being ignored and escalate to a snap or a bite.

If he ignores you when you tell him to get off then the command hasn't been trained properly. Back to basics with lots of training - not just of the down command but if recall and things like "touch

Oops, posted too soon.

That should say "Back to basics with lots of training - not just of the down command but of recall and things like "touch" commands so it's drilled into him to come to you when he's called.

what are touch commands?
Yes I agree with you about the collar pulling too.

The only way I'mable to do any study today is do have him lying on my lap, like a cat, otherwise he's just walking around whining. Am I letting him be dominant over me by doing this???? I don't want him to think he's the boss of me!

Dominance in dogs has been debunked.
He just whining because wants to be with you which is very normal for dogs.

The touch command is getting them to touch their nose to the open palm of your hand. It's a good bonding exercise and a good way of getting him to come to you for a reward.

Just hold your hand out to the side with your palm facing him at nose height. Wait for him to come and investigate and when he puts his nose on your palm, say "touch"
and treat.

Eventually you'll just be able to hold out your hand and say "touch" and he'll come over automatically.

I don't think he thinks lying on you makes him dominant. I think he thinks it's warm and snuggly and the pressure of sleeping up against another living being reminds him a lot of being a puppy, all bundled in with the litter

Think of him like a baby who won't settle. Some ignore the crying until it eventually stops. Some keep settling them down until eventually they learn to seelte themselves.

Either is likely to work (eventually). Especially if wherever you want him to settle has lots of snuggly blankets that are a suitable replacement for a warm body.

In terms of sofas and bins: prevention will work better than cure at this age. 90% of dog training is really just setting everything up so that the dog gets into the right habits. If he can't get on the sofa, he can't get upset when asked to get off it. Lots of diffrent ways to achieve this, such as standing the cushions upright or not letting him in the room unsupervised etc.

Same as the bin: think of was to keep him from bin raiding. It sounds so simple it's patronising, and I don't mean it to be. But the extra effort right now will pay off when he's older because he won't develop the habit of bin raiding. Plus, lots of practice when it doesn't matter on swapping items for something more valuable. That all means you are likely to be able to rely on that training in the moments that really matter. You should never (hardly ever) need to take anything off a dog unless a genuine emergency, asking should do the trick. But that only comes with lots of practise when the dog doesn't much value what they are giving up.

I personally wouldn't use combatative methods such as shouting NO. Dogs trained this way are more likely to show aggression problems than dogs trained without it and this link is likely to be causal rather than coincidental. Lots of dogs will accept this type of training but it's a gamble and a fair moral question about whether fear is right when the same/better level of training can be achieved without.

I personally wouldn't use combatative methods such as shouting NO. Dogs trained this way are more likely to show aggression problems than dogs trained without it and this link is likely to be causal rather than coincidental. Lots of dogs will accept this type of training but it's a gamble and a fair moral question about whether fear is right when the same/better level of training can be achieved without.

100%.

You don't want a dog that obeys through fear.

Same as the bin: think of was to keep him from bin raiding. It sounds so simple it's patronising, and I don't mean it to be. But the extra effort right now will pay off when he's older because he won't develop the habit of bin raiding. Plus, lots of practice when it doesn't matter on swapping items for something more valuable. That all means you are likely to be able to rely on that training in the moments that really matter. You should never (hardly ever) need to take anything off a dog unless a genuine emergency, asking should do the trick. But that only comes with lots of practise when the dog doesn't much value what they are giving up.

Not patronising at all, was just having the converstaion last night about this. Take away the stressors and the problem is taken away.

Is the touch command just a different version of 'come'?

Is the touch command just a different version of 'come'?

It kind of is, but has some advantages:

1. If he doesn't come, you have not weakend your recall cue. Great when they are young and recall can be iffy
2. Do it right and it's fun to do - meaning he's more likely to want to do it. Lots of dogs enjoy the run up and booping action
3. You tend to use it more as a game, resulting it something good like treats. That means it has nothing but positive associations (compare with 'come here' which you may inadvertently use for something horrid, like a bath ) - meaning he is more likely to want to do it
4. If you tend to use it as a fun game, your voice will reflect that naturally. 'Touch' is often delivered in a muh more inviting, fun manner than 'come here' which can occasionally stray into barking an order if you're not careful. I know mine does unless I focus on it.

It can work very nicely as a recall alternative when they are about this age. Leaving your recall cue to only ever be used when you are SURE he will recall, thus leaving the recall cue habit as strong as possible.

"Take away the stressors and the problem is taken away."

Absolutely. Reminds me of this hierarchy where preventing bin raiding is your 'antecedent arrangements'.

More details here, if you're up for a read: www.themoderndogtrainer.net/humane-hierarchy-behavior-modification-explained/

Another thing is to make sure he has a nice comfy bed as close to you as possible as an alternative to the sofa. Lurchers are real sofa dogs when ever they get the chance and they do like to cuddle up with you so if he has a good alternative you can train him to go there rather than just get off the sofa.

That article is very interesting, thanks!
While i'm at it, can anyone recommend some good dog toys, I think alot of it (whining etc) is boredom. I have some stuff but would like to expand it!

Natural chews are a good way to go, or stuffed kongs.

yes, use both. was thinking one of those pawzler games or nina stormson or whatever her name is!

Ime Lurchers are very needy. Mine sits on the pedastal mat.....

Being honest, I wouldn't waste your money.

really??! why not?
you don't rate them?