Aussie pup struggles, advice needed please!

[ezbez]

Hi all,
My first post on the doghouse! We picked up our 8 week old Australian Shepherd puppy this week. There are lots of positives, mainly the fact he's a total fluff ball! He's doing well with crate training, currently having all of his meals in there and day time naps with the door closed, with us in view.

We did lots of research before we got him, but now he is here we are realising how much conflicting information is out there.

One of the problems we have is a common one, puppy biting. He's a herding dog, so puppy biting can be a bit worse than in other breeds, especially as he nips ankle bones! We've read Steve Manns book which says we should give a time out for any human biting and offer redirection with a chew toy. We're doing this, however it's difficult as he's biting our trousers, not letting go, growling and tugging at our pants like it's tug of war. He's also nipping calf/ankle skin, it really hurts! It'

The thing that's worrying us is that it's happening really often, so he's spending a lot of time in time out in the kitchen. We've read a total contradiction to the book, which says time out shouldn't be used to stop biting as it shows the dog separation from you is a negative thing = separation anxiety.

The other issue is that he's absolutely obsessed with getting on the sofa. He's been on there once, the first day he was home for about 5 seconds. He jumped up and off, and really hurt himself (my fault, I shouldn't have let him do it). So he's not been back on it since and we've decided to make that a rule, no dog on the sofa. However he's absolutely intent on it. We have tried everything, and are consistent every time. Moving him away, distraction, time out, grabbing his attention with the smell of a treat and redirecting him into a 'sit' and then praise/treat. Nothings working. He jumps up at the sofa and we repeat the process 50+ times and he doesn't lose interest.

Any advice at all? I think we've read too much and need some real life perspectives. It would be much appreciated. I will include a pic as payment

We have hired a trainer who's coming to the house tomorrow. I'm so, so worried about this behaviour and so is DP. We're really struggling. I'm really worried that it's more than him just being over tired. I can't stress enough that this isn't just a puppy teething and chewing and nipping, he's showing actual aggression towards me and only me. It's so strange and he loves me the rest of the time!

I will bet money that your puppy is not aggressive and that this is normal pupppy behaviour. I hear it daily from clients and their puppies turn out to be beautiful calm grownup dogs.

Puppies are lethal weapons with very bitey teeth

It is great you are getting a trainer in to reassure you.

Second everyone else. It's really good you are getting a trainer in but this is supernormal and not a sign there is anything wrong. If you watch puppies play with each it is really bitey. But some of the superbiters also learn fastest to cool it down. Whilst you wait I think Zak George has a good YouTube video about his collie and her biting and how long it took to stop - no magic, lots of redirection and patience. Got there in the end.

We have a rough collie - more chilled than an ausie but the bitey stage we had a puppy pen and she loved a cardboard box to snooze in so if she got very bitey with me, I put her in the pen which was in a different room but with doors open was nearby and in sight of us. Only had to do it a couple of times. Good luck.

I have a 4 year old Aussie. We were massively naive first time dog owners and she was a nightmare puppy (though insanely cute) but she's now much more chilled. She was also bad at nipping arms as a puppy - we never did time out, just redirected her with toys over and over again. She grew out of it. The sofa thing - I think you're fighting a losing battle! We've always let her on the sofa - love Aussie cuddles! Try not to stress out too much about her behaviour- she's just a puppy, they're cute but horrendous. Things will get better. But I would start thinking about mental stimulation- tricks, games, scent work etc. You'll never tire her out physically, so you need to have a few other things up your sleeve. Congratulations on the new puppy- they're gorgeous dogs.

We have hired a trainer who's coming to the house tomorrow. I'm so, so worried about this behaviour and so is DP. We're really struggling. I'm really worried that it's more than him just being over tired. I can't stress enough that this isn't just a puppy teething and chewing and nipping, he's showing actual aggression towards me and only me. It's so strange and he loves me the rest of the time!

I highly, highly doubt your puppy is aggressive. Please stop panicking!

Puppy biting is horrendous - they draw blood, pierce the skin and rip clothes very very easily because they have such sharp teeth and no self control.

The behaviour you describe is normal. If you watch puppies play, it can be incredibly rough. They bare their teeth, they growl, they sometimes snarl and nip - I call it bitey face! In many dogs, it continues well into adulthood but by then, they've learnt not to do it with people 😉

My beagle is five in January and he loves nothing more than wrestling with his doggy pals. The sounds they can make are awful and to a bystander it looks like fighting but I promise you it's not. It's play. And he used to do it with us (more DH than me) until he was taught not to.

Honestly, your puppy will be fine 😊

Thank you so much for all of the kind words and reassurance. Today has been a really difficult day. Our Labrador puppy was nothing like this!

We were at the vets for vaccinations this afternoon and described the behaviours and showed him some videos. He said there may be some concerns due to the intensity of what he's doing coupled with the snarl and growl, but that it could also be normal. We explained what we've been doing to manage it and he told us to carry on exactly what we've been doing and he will follow up with us in 2 weeks. I'm so glad to hear you all say it's normal. SO GLAD!

After the vets I felt completely emotionally void. I was just done in. My DP however has been absolutely amazing. He's so motivated to get this right and has spent hours training and being 100% consistent with the little monster. He sent me off upstairs for a bath and a nap, he even brought me a snack plate!! And told me to return when I felt ready to go again.

When I went back down our pup had made noticeable progress. This morning he bit me easily 20+ times, it felt non stop. From 5pm until 11pm he's bit me twice. You can see him really thinking, there are moments where he almost goes to do it, and then thinks again. What a rollercoaster this is!

Fingers crossed for more improvement tomorrow when the trainer comes.

@eezbez I am so glad to hear there's improvement for you. Sometimes a break from the little landsharks is what's needed in order to feel better.
Fingers crossed things keep improving, it does feel like 1 step forward, 2 steps back at times! Complete rollercoaster!

Growls and snarls are very very very common for puppies especially herding breeds do not let the vets comments concern you.

You may also find that the puppy is more bitey with you than your husband, this again is quite common and dont take it personally.

TBH you dont really need to "train" out the biting just distract and prevent as the puppy will stop doing it when they stop teething and get a bit older.

This to will pass (honestly)

Thought I would update incase anybody reads this in the future. We're about a week and a half in, although it feels like it's been months! Things are much, much better.

The trainer was good and we have a further 4 sessions to come.

Our boys behaviour is much improved, we're basically using a time out method. The trainer saw the snarly biting and growling and agreed it wasn't really normal puppy behaviour. He said he was showing a lot of dominant behaviour and said he thought he may have been the alpha of his litter. I spoke to the breeder and what she told us confirmed that.

He's doing so much better, the aggression towards me has disappeared and the situation has completely flipped. He loves me to bits, he's always by my side (and under my feet!) and is such a cuddle monster. He's the sweetest boy and nothing like the growly little shark I had on my hands when I first wrote this post.

I was in total despair! I'm so glad things are better now. I can cope with the normal puppy mouthing, nipping and chewing!

I'm glad that things are going better for you. However, I would have serious reservations about a trainer who referred to a 9-week-old puppy (or any dog, for that matter) as an "alpha" or described his behaviour as dominant. That is a very old-fashioned, unscientific, and IMO unhelpful way of interpreting dogs' behaviour. I would imagine that the changes you are seeing are due in no small part to your puppy becoming more comfortable in his new environment and beginning to bond with you.

In any case, I hope you enjoy your lovely puppy. Aussies are awesome.

I am glad that things are better but have huge red flags about your trainer from what they have said.

The trainer saw the snarly biting and growling and agreed it wasn't really normal puppy behaviour. He said he was showing a lot of dominant behaviour and said he thought he may have been the alpha of his litter. I spoke to the breeder and what she told us confirmed that.

All of the above paragraph is showing a massive lack of dog knowledge and is outdate 1970's dogma. Luckily we have moved on from this.

Ok, so I haven't read the full thread, but another fellow Aussie owner here! Ours is nearly 2.
I just wanted to say please ignore all the doom and gloom mongers about Aussies. Yes, ours has been challenging, but we're getting there now. And it's been no more than challenging than I expected! She doesn't require hours of exercise a day and/ or massive amounts of mental stimulation. That said, I don't think she'd be happy if we walked her in the morning then left her alone all day, but if we're around or she comes out and about with us she's happy.
I have been doing Hoopers with her, which really works her brain, and other than that I've done all the training myself with support from Facebook group Dog Training Advice and Support. They have a puppy group you can pay to join which was invaluable. Apart from anything else you realise you're not alone!
Re the biting, as you've realised tiredness is a big cause. one thing DTAS say that is different to Steve Mann is not to ignore pup when they do it, as they may then try even harder to engage with you!
Your pup is gorgeous - enjoy!

About the sofa. Both my Aussie dogs, one past, one present, quickly learned that only when The Sacred Blanket was on the sofa could they jump up. This is an easily-washed fleece and stops the sofa from getting doggified.

The trainer saw the snarly biting and growling and agreed it wasn't really normal puppy behaviour. He said he was showing a lot of dominant behaviour and said he thought he may have been the alpha of his litter. I spoke to the breeder and what she told us confirmed that.

I'm glad you're feeling better OP but I'm afraid your update threw up a lot of red flags for me too 😞

The dominance theory in dogs was debunked years ago. Where did you find your trainer and what qualifications does he have? And what behavioural qualifications does your breeder have to able to refer to a tiny puppy as dominant?

To be fair, especially with working breeds, it can be hard to understand why the concepts of dominance and being an alpha are bollocks whilst leadership, boundaries and consistency do matter. This link explains it well: https://apdt.com/resource-center/dominance-and-dog-training/

I agree I would double check your trainers qualifications. Dominance just isn't a helpful way to understand dog behaviour or what you are doing when training. And you may well have a confident pup from the litter. Puppy temperaments vary. Obviously that interacts with how you socialise and train him now to build his adult temperament.

But litters don't have alphas any more than baby groups do. Even though in a baby group some babies will be shy and cuddly and some will be curious and want to explore and some (youngest DS I am looking at you) will be hitting the other babies.

I have no advice but I just had to say he is sooooo beautiful! I wish I had one. 🥰

Just read all the thread and this was me last year! We have a 19 month old border collie but he was like a velociraptor just with me. Never touched DH!.
Im soooo pleased to say that he grew out of it so stick with it OP.
With reference to the sofa we had a no dogs policy, however it went out of the window and he'll even sleep on our bed - until hes kicked off because theres no room for me !

I came across this thread again and just wanted to offer an update. I remember feeling so so worried when we first got him because the first few weeks were so much harder than I imagined they would be.

I'm happy to say he is now 7 months old. The targeted biting at me was really short lived. We gave 2 minute time outs each time he did it and used positive reinforcement the rest of the time.

We love him so much, and he loves us back. He's such a good boy and has a really funny, cheeky personality. He's incredibly clever and knows so many commands and tricks. He's also absolutely beautiful. Everywhere we go people stop us to ask his breed and say how gorgeous he is.

Will include a pic below. Not quite as fluffy as when he was 8 weeks old, but still my handsome boy.

Also yes, we binned off the alpha theory trainer and found some better group puppy classes.

If anyone feels how I did, just know it really does get better. The first few weeks are just intensely hard and you're probably sleep deprived too which makes everything feel worse.

Fantastic. It makes such a difference to find a trainer who actually understands how a dog learns. Classes are great too as it teaches a young dog to ‘work’ around distraction.

@FanGurlll absolutely beautiful!

He’s beautiful! Glad it all worked out!

I'm glad everything is going well. Your pup is gorgeous! Great to hear that you got rid of the trainer who promoted the alpha/dominant views.

My Aussie will turn 2 this summer. I couldn't ask for a better dog. Wishing you many years of happiness with your Aussie!

Ah beautiful dog! Glad it is going well.