Advice re dog being attacked

[CollieDug]

I’m currently really, really pissed off but want to get advice from cool heads.

I took my gentle, gorgeous extremely friendly Border Collie for a walk today and he was attacked by a large male golden retriever. I know this dog - he is an entire male (as is mine) and every occasion the same thing happens; the dog starts to approach mine, mine stays next to me, the owners of the retriever try to call him back, he just stares at my (completely passive) dog, ignoring his owners. Though on one occasion he ran about 300m to get to my dog, today we were closer. Then he just launches himself ferociously at my dog who tries to run away.

As he attacked my dog (who must be about half his size) I did shout at the owners to get their dog off. I did swear but my dog was yelping as he was terrified. Eventually they pulled him off.

I told them that this was the fifth time their dog had attacked him, that they were irresponsible owners for walking him off-lead as they had no control over him. They just told me to calm down.

I know from other people who walk locally that this dog has attacked other dogs but no-one seems to challenge them on it. I’m tempted to put a post on the village FB page but that seems a bit lame. Should I be reporting this dog?

Ps I’m sensitive to the fact that if anyone heard of an altercation between a BC and a GR they’d assume it was the BC, but I absolutely promise that my wonderful boy is not the instigator at all - he is visibly terrified when he sees this dog.

Not that I would recommend separating a dog with your hands unless you're left with that as your only option- using a slip collar correctly under the jaw (as the other person said) would not 'choke' the dog, in fact it would give you complete control of the head to pull the agressive dog away (much better control than a regular flat collar or harness anyway) - if the other was not fighting back..

I doubt in the situation of a real dog on dog fight one would be able to slip a collar around a dogs head.. I have male dogs who have fought numerous times and I definitely wouldn't have been able to seperate on my own (me and my partner use the wheelbarrow method to pull each dog off the other usually).

My families gun dogs are all walked in slip collars / leads and I occasionally use a slip collar for my shepherd when training. They are great when used correctly and much much better for a dog than a collar or harness, which either choke the poor dog or encourage pulling even more thus damaging their back.

@cata09x I disagree.
Dogs are meant to be leashed in public areas due to HUMANS not other dogs. Very little action is taken if a dog gets into a fight. But if a fight result in human injury god help you.

Suzi

My dog has excellent recall. He has started chasing hares, deer, foxes and I call him and he returns. Every single time.

when he saw the other dog he came and stood next to me. He did not move. It was the GR who approached him. My dog was perfectly under control

I discussed neutering with both vet and (extremely experienced and ethical) breeder. Neither recommended (due to his extremely placid personality). In fact they discouraged.

He has never attacked another dog and certainly not a person. He is extremely good with children (but I NEVER leave him unattended with them as you can never trust any dog).

I have had more issues with neutered males however not a statistically meaningful number of them to conclude a causal relationship.

My dog’s welfare is at the heart of every decision I make - not what conveniences me.So I will continue to walk him off-lead when responsible to do so (he is a border collie, he needs this), and I will not neuter him. And I still maintain your response makes no sense and appears to me to come from an emotionally-driven rather than knowledge-driven point of view. Perhaps because you have had a bad day?

But there is a difference between having your dog off lead in a childrens play park (where they aren't allowed anyway) and having your dog off leash at the local meadow?

On my walks I rarely encounter anyone walking without a dog, and people who own dogs such as collie's or shepherds wouldn't be able to exercise their dogs? My dogs require a minimum of 2 hours off leash exercise a day and our garden doesn't stimulate their brain in the slightest compared to the woodland. We respect places which require dogs to be leased - such as in our local nature reserve and pets at home 😂 however I know I have 100% control over them in public so I'm also not worried about them being a liability towards people seeing as I never let other people touch my dogs anyway.

I really wouldn't recommend picking up your dog, 99% of the time it makes other dogs more determined to get to them. They're much more interesting when they're in the air.

when he saw the other dog he came and stood next to me. He did not move. It was the GR who approached him. My dog was perfectly under control

The point people are trying to get across is that, by law, it doesn't matter that it was your dog that was approached, or that he was stood by your side.

He was off the lead which, legally speaking, means both dogs were equally at fault. Having him on a lead gives you extra protection and means, if a fight is reported, the dog warden is more likely to act.

Nobody is saying to walk your dog on lead all the time, just that you should put him back on the lead if you see an unknown dog.

@thelobsterquadrille

of course I put my dog n a lead if I feel the situation warrants it (note that I did this on the second occasion when this dog attacked and it made the situation for my dog much worse)

And I do not see any law which says my dog is equally at fault - the law refers to dogs which are dangerously out of control rather than those simply not on a lead.

But in any case I was not asking for specific legal fault, I was asking for best way of dealing with it (best for my dog, not me). If my dog continually attacked another dog then he would be on a lead all the time, possibly muzzled, and as soon as I saw the dog he regularly attacked I’d put a lead on him and walk away.

Let’s imagine I did the annoying reverse thread thing:

My dog, who I walk off lead and has no recall, has attacked another dog 5 times. The other dog is offlead however so my understanding is that the owner of the other dog is deemed to have an equally out of control dog and that she has no right to be pissed off with me? AIBU to not change how I walk my dog and not apologise to the owner of the other dog?

We have a greyhound here that has attacked more than one dog. Put one in the vets and damn near killed another. You’re really not describing an attack.
Keep your dog away from it if you are finding it’s behaviour a problem.

And I do not see any law which says my dog is equally at fault - the law refers to dogs which are dangerously out of control rather than those simply not on a lead.

There isn't a law about it specifically, that's the problem. But all my work with dogs tells me that having your dog on lead hugely improves of your chances of getting help if they're attacked.

If my dog continually attacked another dog then he would be on a lead all the time, possibly muzzled, and as soon as I saw the dog he regularly attacked I’d put a lead on him and walk away.

I don't disagree that this should be the case, but you can't force other dog owners to behave a certain way. All you can do is be your dogs' advocate - which means putting him on a lead and getting him the hell out of there. Having him stood next to you minding his own business isn't enough, unfortunately.

“Let’s imagine I did the annoying reverse thread thing:

My dog, who I walk off lead and has no recall, has attacked another dog 5 times. The other dog is offlead however so my understanding is that the owner of the other dog is deemed to have an equally out of control dog and that she has no right to be pissed off with me? AIBU to not change how I walk my dog and not apologise to the owner of the other dog?”

the problem is you are conflating what you see to be the morally right position with the legal position, which doesn’t really help your dog. You’ve been given some good advice here, it’s up to you whether you take it- but my money is on the owner of the other dog not changing their habits, so if you want to keep your dog safe then you will need to change what you do.

Why an earth do you keep letting your dog near him if you know he's like this.

Carry a can of Pet Corrector on you. (Available on Amazon). It's basically a can of air but is an extremely high pitched hissing sound and may stop any interaction. Sorry your poor dog was hurt.

Sorry I realise this has already been suggested in previous posts.

Yes. Report AND put on FB page. That dog is clearly aggressive and has no recall. Being told to calm down while your dog is being attacked by theirs shows their level of accountability, tbh.

OK the conjecture here is getting silly. So here are some details.

attack 1: dogs never met, had no idea of response. Just one of those things. No-one’s fault.

attack 2: I see dog, some distance away I ask if it’s “Fido”. When they confirm it is I say he attacked my dog before. And before they can do anything he charges over an attacks again. Not sure what else I could have done. Owner says “he’s never done that before”

attack 3: I see Fido and shout to them to put Fido on lead. They call Fido but no recall. My husband puts our dog in lead and as Fido charges toward us I go forward to try to block him. He pushes past me with ease and attacks my on-lead dog. Owners eventually catch up. No apology.

attack 4: dog 300m away. He starts charging towards us. My dog jumps across a ditch (well away from road no danger there) but Fido follows. My dog then comes back to me an hides behind my legs. I am able to keep Fido away as I have my ball thrower and use it to hit Fido. Owner eventually catches up. No apology.

attacks 1-4 on same field - right next to my house.
I also hear about 3 other dogs he has attacked. So owners very aware.

attack 5. 5 miles away. I am in a small forest, no others dogs around. I go round a corner and see what I think is Fido. I immediately stop (~20m away) and ask if it’s Fido. They say yes so I say please put on lead as he has attacked my dog several times. THEY DO FUCK ALL and during this period of doing fuck all Fido approaches us. I do not put my dog on a lead because of what happened in attack 3 and in any case Fido is too close. The feckless owners do not move but just shout to Fido who then goes for my dog. My dog tries to escape but Fido pins him down biting his neck. My dog is squealing horribly. I am extremely worried.

so maybe some of you think I could have done more but I genuinely think I could not have done. My question on here was best way to approach as these idiot owners have no control over their dog. And they don’t seem to care either.

but thank you for those who have responded with sensible advice

• I will continue to walk my wonderful dog off lead when safe to do so
• i will not get him neutered unless advised by vet
• i will not look to strangle Fido or kick up arse if he attacks again
• i will get air compression thing. That sounds like a good idea
• i have posted on village FB to warn others
• if I see Fido and his pathetic owners, I will avoid/walk away/hide - whatever keeps my dog safe.

And for a bonus here is a photo of my gorgeous boy at the moment. He is my emotional support dog (I am autistic) and he he helps me so much.

Ps hello to anyone from my village who recognises me! (Unless you are Fido’s feckless owners)

I'd take pictures of Fido and owners. Note times at the park and report. X

Your dog is gorgeous!

I had numerous incidents with the dog that eventually bit mine of escalating aggression. The dog had no recall and the person walking it was an idiot. I spoke to her politely on a previous occasion and she seemed to listen. Another person had a friendly chat with her after witnessing her dog's behaviour.

After my dog received a bite, I spent most of a day ringing and texting other dog walkers and was able to get her details. I rang her to ask for payment of the vet bill and for an assurance that the dog would be kept under control and she told me to do my worst and put the phone down!

I reported to police (dog was out of control and snapping at me) and the dog warden. Dog warden dealt with it and I have not encountered the dog again. I also had the vet bill paid and would have taken further action had it not been. Weirdly the local gossip mill got going and a couple of people thought I was in the wrong!

I'd make it your mission to get this owner's details because I doubt this will be the last problem unfortunately.

He is beautiful.

Unfortunately there's just not really not much you can do except avoid this dog and put your dog on a lead when he approaches so if an attack does occur, you have the law on your side.

That way if your dog gets hurt (or heaven forbid, you do) you can go to the dog warden/police and say "my dog was on a lead and under control when X approached and bit him/me" - the dog warden then has firm evidence that the other dog is at fault and started the fight.

If you're not happy to do that then there's nothing else anyone can advise, really.

This is why I carry a walking stick on walks. Always put your dog on a lead when approaching other dogs, otherwise it's seen as a dog on dog fight between two out of control dogs. If your dog is on lead and then approached and attacked by an out of control dog, at least you can report and take to small claims court.

I second this. Keyboard cleaner sprays (also air based) may be cheaper and just as effective.

I would report the dog and the owner to you local dog warden. They hopefully would get a visit and the warden would explain the dangerous dogs act.