Crazy to get a border collie?

[Byfleet]

I have wanted a border collie all my life but held off because I have been incredibly busy most of my adult life with kids, work and caring for elderly DM. DM has now passed away, kids left home and I am semi retired. However, I have read so many threads here about how border collies are particularly demanding. Would it be sensible? Here are pros and cons.

Pros

• sorry to blow my own trumpet but I am very fit and active and really love walking (and running). I am a lecturer and love teaching/training
• I am semi retired. We have a big garden and a couple of parks nearby
• DCs live nearby, love dogs, and claim they would contribute to works/dog sitting etc.

Cons

• I am very fit (marathons etc)but I am 60 and need more rest than I used to
• DH is not very fit and doesn’t really enjoy outdoor exercise
• we live in London. We have parks nearby but I am wary of letting any dog off the lead. There are some scary dogs (and owners) around.
• We have a biggish garden but I am a little precious about it ie. don’t really want dug up lawn and flower beds
• I am a little precious about the house too ie. Not keen on scratched or chewed furniture.

Any collie owners out there? Am I a good fit?

The idea, however, that half an hour on the tube for a collie is somehow cruel, and especially more cruel than never letting them off lead, is ludicrous.

I don't know any collies that would be happy on a tube. Some may tolerate it, but collies (by their very nature) are working, herding dogs that are bred to run. They are not designed to walk on a lead in enclosed indoor spaces for long periods of time.

Collies are not especially sociable with humans either - they are very much "one man dogs". They are also incredibly sensitive to noise. Putting them in a busy, enclosed space with lots of strangers is a recipe for disaster.

I have a reactive, resource guarding dog who has absolutely no interest in interactions with strange humans. Not an easy dog in many ways, but not a collie as I know full well I couldn't keep up with the exercise requirements.

Guess who's going on a long distance train tomorrow?

Far easier than walking him down a street tbh, and he much prefers it to a car ride. He's a rescue and I'm very much under the impression that he was routinely taken on the tube as a puppy but didn't see the inside of a car until he was about 18 months old.

A collie that grew up outside London may very well not cope with the experience, but one raised in London and experiencing the tube will likely be ok (if not, there's always buses). As with most things in dogs, early socialisation is key.

A collie that grew up outside London may very well not cope with the experience, but one raised in London and experiencing the tube will likely be ok (if not, there's always buses). As with most things in dogs, early socialisation is key.

You can't out-socialise or out-train a dogs' fundamental instincts.

Of course not, but now you're massively diverting from the point, which was a rebuttal of the idea that half an hour on the tube is more cruel than never letting a collie run off lead.

I agree with @thelobsterquadrille borders are bred to do a job that is mostly but not completely incompatible with city life and regular tube travel. I say that as someone who lived in London for manywww.bordercollietrustgb.org.uk/rehoming/the-border-collie

Balls writing on phone! Lived in London, now live rurally with a collie. I totally understand why you want one as they are wonderful and addictive and many of us would never have a different dog. BUT the link above explains why they need space to run, a job to do and peace and quiet. They are so sensitive the vast majority will find an urban setting distressing. That might result in destructive behaviours, but far worse it might just mean a chronically unhappy dog not leading a decent life. I see lots of working breeds in London that handle the hustle and bustle well - labs and spaniels, bred for busy jobs with lots of noise around them will be fine. The issue isn't activity it's sensory sensitivity - you cannot train that out of a dog. The only pathway to a collie you could consider is calling a rescue like Dogs Trust and looking at older collie crosses who have already lived in urban settings - you sound like ideally set up to rescue and there are often crosses in rescue.

If you are intending to go down the collie route then you would be much better to go for a steadier show line than a working line. I know like some breeds there are no distinct differences (think WCS, GSD etc) but I’ve taught working and show and there are differences in temperaments although the inherent breed traits remain. Dogs are individuals. I’ve taught lazy collies and crazy toy breeds. Make sure mum has a steady temperament and you’re likely to be in a better position when pup matures.

I'm not saying no dogs cope with the tube,handbag dogs are completely different from collies,no way could my collie or any collie I've ever met be ok with the tube,they'd be a neurotic mess!

Of course not, but now you're massively diverting from the point, which was a rebuttal of the idea that half an hour on the tube is more cruel than never letting a collie run off lead.

My point was that both are equally as cruel and unnecessary 🤷🏻‍♀️ collies are working dogs, they don't belong in cities or on tubes.

People need to get dogs that fit their lifestyles, not the other way around.

We are retired 61 and 65 and have a border collie who is now 4. We live in Surrey and do have an open farm nearby and an enclosed dog park. As a puppy he destroyed my garden and my furniture, but grew out of that within 6 months. My dog just lives for going out, whether it’s a walk, run or training at the dog park, or just going to a pub, but at home he will happily sleep. I don’t know whether I personally would have another BC puppy, maybe an rescue adult as there are so many in rescues where people just don’t understand the breed. A friend has one who he runs half marathons with from aged 2 to aged 8.

Retrievers and labradors were bred for country work and landscapes but guide dogs of these breeds negotiate every type of traffic.

That led me to wonder why collies aren't guide dogs when they're so clever, hard working and trainable. Is it because they're not placid and benign enough? Otherwise they'd be amazing as guide dogs, wouldn't they?

@Ingrainedagainstthegrain I imagine it will be a combo of intelligence, herding instinct and sensitivity. - BCs are stupidly clever, having previously had a lab and gone to a smart BC it feels like swapping species. That doesn't make for easy training - she likes to decide first if what I am telling her to do makes sense. I definitely wouldn't want her guiding me around. Some of her decisions are questionable! Sensitivity makes some (again not all) collies reactive and this is unpredictable and can change over their lifetime. Finally they vary in how much they herd but if the drive is strong as it is in mine you can only work with it, in our case absolutely loads of focus work to keep her busy not something a blind person needing to go to work will have time for. That said I am sure you will find examples of individual collies working as phenomenal assistance dogs. There are jobs they do amazingly like search and rescue which is essentially what they are bred to do - find lost sheep by themselves in difficult conditions.

They need a HUGE amount of exercise. Ask yourself if you'll still be as fit and able bodied on 10 years. X

There are honestly a million reasons -
collies are, as a general rule, noise sensitive, aloof with other dogs and strangers, potentially reactive to cars and have an innate instinct to herd anything that moves (sheep, cats, other dogs, bikes, cars).

They are also incredibly intelligent whereas Labradors are more biddable. A Labrador will do what you train it to do, a collie will automatically think of ten ways to do what it wants to do instead

an innate instinct to herd anything that moves (sheep, cats, other dogs, bikes, cars

You forgot rowing boats (yes, really!) though at least that's not very likely to arise in London.

@ErrolTheDragon 😂 I am going to guess there's a story to that. Mine wants to wade into the pond at the park to sort the ducks out. Rich Hall sums them up well in his

A Labrador will do what you train it to do, a collie will automatically think of ten ways to do what it wants to do instead

I was wondering about this!

Thanks to those who responded!

You do seem to be ignoring everyone telling you it's a bad breed choice.

I live rurally, WFH, have a lab and foster dogs. And I would not get a collie.

They are about as working breed as you can get and are not the best bet for pets.

There are many, many more breeds that would thrive and fit with your lifestyle. In fact most breeds would. Just not a collie. It I've a feeling you won't listen.

I used to have what we think was a lab/collie cross (definitely lab and something). In some ways she was harder to train than her adorably dim staffy-cross sister because she was always trying to figure out how far she could push you and what she could get away with. It took considerably longer to hammer an idea through the staffy's head, but once she understood what you wanted, she reliably did the thing. They were quite a pair.