Arthritis and pain

[Suzi888]

My 12 year old Lab has torn his ACL (he’s done this in the past, had a TPLO).

He’s now torn the other knee, he’s has two consultations, one with a vet and one with a orthopaedic veterinary surgeon. Both have discussed it and stated the best outcome is conservative management (pain relief). He has arthritis and other medical conditions, he’s also overweight. The vet has assessed him as being a jolly dog, he’s happy and to just keep him comfortable.

He takes Galliprant and Tralieve.

He is moaning a fair bit, is this normal and to be expected because he’s not totally pain free?

He plays with his teddy and eats well, interacts and seems happy otherwise.

Is there anything else that is better medication wise? Metacam? I don’t know.
He does get a bit of ibs but we manage this with diet.

He is seeing the vet later and I’ll discuss it with them, just wondering what everyone else’s Lab takes for arthritis and pain.

I am dreading the day his rear end gives up, is this how it ends?

The moaning doesn't sound normal and dogs are good at masking pain so will play and eat. My old Lab was on Metacam for his arthritis. At various times he had had Tramadol and paracetamol too. My darling boy was nearly 16 when I lost him so don't think it's all over with your boy. But his back end went (he had a back issue for more than ten years). The supplement I used was the same as Yumove but cheaper. My senior spaniel is on Norton joint formula from Amazon, again same as Yumove but not as expensive.

As to management, make sure his bed is soft and deep so he doesn't get sore elbows. A couple of short walks are better than one longer one. Walks on grass are better than paved surfaces, but keep an eye on his claws. We moved house so my boy didn't have to go up and down stairs in a reverse level house (or my husband, but mainly my Lab!). He may need help if he does stairs and getting in and out the car. Inner Wolf do a folding set of totally aluminium steps that go to the size of a briefcase and I wish I had had those for my boy for the car.

You get so close looking after them. It's worthwhile but heartbreaking too.

I hope some of this is useful and that your dog gets effective pain relief.

Moaning is not good.

Do tell the vet there is other medication they can use and add in or swop.

But also the best thing you can do for him is to help him lose weight

CAM may help you and give you ideas of other things that may help your dog

Moaning isn't good or normal. Dogs are excellent at hiding pain so if he's verbalising that he's sore it must be pretty bad.

The best thing you can do for your dog (aside from appropriate pain medication) is to get him to lose weight. I know that's going to be hard for a Labrador who can't do much exercise but if he can get down to a healthy weight it will make the world of difference to his quality of life.

Please, please adjust his diet so that some of the stress is taken off his joints. He will be so much happier.

Hi, my 14 year old lab with an arthritic shoulder did her acl in the summer.
She is on a monthly librela injection and yumove advance 360, we have no moaning she is still lively, we have daily walks. However she is slim.

You must get the weight off your dog, our vet said the fact that ours is slim is crucial to her great recovery.

It had to be the expensive yumove only obtainable from the vet, we've tried the cheaper ones from Amazon and they are no good.
The librela was a real game changer for us.
We have the option of galliprant in the future.

Thanks all- just reading replies. He hasn’t moaned over the last couple of days (thank god). He saw the vet for a check up and he wants to see him again next week. The problem is he gets a new lease of life at the surgery, so the vet says “oh he’s fine, he’s old, just leave him as he is, he’s jolly”. 😫

We’ve tried Yumove, it gives him chronic diarrhoea. He has lost a bit of weight, purely by cutting back on food. Exercising to lose weight is a no go, he can barely walk for 15 minutes. The rain seems to be a factor, he doesn’t like going out if it’s pouring with rain. I have cut out all treats and the vet said he’s lost weight (it isn’t enough to make a difference).

@Happydays321 if you don’t mind me asking, how does the vet administer Librela? Is the dog sedated? Has your dog’s ACL been operated on or is the Librela purely for pain management?

He has an orthopaedic bed, we have rugs so that he doesn’t have to walk on the wooden flooring. I have purchased CBD oil and will ask the vet if he’s allowed to take it. I’ve heard rave reviews but I’m dubious.

I’ll look at cam now.

I don’t want him to suffer, I work from home so am with him most of the day, he does seem happy, eats well, etc I hope I’m doing the right thing. I presume the vet would tell me if it’s time, I just don’t know. Sometimes I have to help him stand up, not all the time and not every day, is this normal?

He detests me putting him in the car, he tries to avoid it so I guess it hurts him. DM has arthritis and hates getting in the car too!

Librela is injected by the nurse no sedation needed.

Her ACL wasnt operated on, the vet said she was too old, she just had the librela and galliprant for a month.

The active substance in Librela is bedinvetmab, a monoclonal antibody (a type of protein) designed to recognise and attach to a protein called nerve growth
factor (NGF). Once attached, it prevents NGF from attaching to its receptors (targets) on nerve cells and interrupts the transmission of pain signals.

Hi this explains librela , vet nurse here ,we are seeing marvelous responses on librela in the vast majority of cases ,but as with all meds some dogs won't get as good a response.
Its a monthly injection sometimes depending on the level of improvement it can be stretched to 6 weeks etc.
When a dog is on librela they are likely to need less pain relief which is fantastic for the dog.

Thank you @Happydays321 I’ll ring the surgery and try it, I did ask the vet about it before (that vet has since left) he said he wouldn’t bother, I never asked why. I presumed it was because the ACL couldn’t be operated on.

I’ve ordered him a harness from the cam website, @Ivedonethisthreetimesalready.

Thank you so much for that explanation, it was never explained what it actually did or how it might help @tsmainsqueeze cutting back on the tablets would be a relief as I get very nervous about the tramadol.

“He has lost a bit of weight, purely by cutting back on food. Exercising to lose weight is a no go, he can barely walk for 15 minutes.”

Exercise for weight loss isn’t the best way to lose weight anyway - food is always the easiest way. I’d cut his food pretty dramatically tbh, and giving him it in various ways that he has to do things to get it so it’s not just, is that it? at a bowl.

We have successfully been giving our dog a supplement, Synoquin along with an anti inflammatory. It has been really beneficial, also weight loss we use Hills weight control/mobility dry food. She has improved dramatically since we implemented this 12 years old.

He has two Forthglade dog dinners per day, which is less than he should have. Occasionally I’ll give him 1.5 of the trays and the rest Forthglade biscuits in his Kong. I don’t feel I can cut it down further, but I’ll ask the vet what he thinks.

All the food is mostly split (apart from breakfast- he has a full tray) so he is having it through the day not all at once. It also means he actually moves, otherwise he will sleep for hours. I do let him rest, but I like him to move every 3/4 hours. He loves food, so will follow me around for a few bits of the kibble.

He is uninterrupted from about 8pm until he chooses to get up the next day, so I feel he’s getting enough rest at night.

We tried synoquin after his TPLO, his tummy did not do well on it. But thank you for the suggestion.

We use senior yumove and it has made a tremendous difference in our dog. The ordinary one initially did but this senior one is amazing. He was in kennels whilst we were away the other week and they commented on how fab he was

“He has two Forthglade dog dinners per day, which is less than he should have”

Feeding guides are based on average amounts of activity, you’re supposed to adjust for their activity level and adjust again depending on whether you’re trying to get them to lose, maintain or gain weight.

Individual dogs can vary massively from feeding guides, my current one is a lean 22kg eating the amount suggested for a 35kg dog, my last dog was a 40kg rottie who would start to gain weight if we fed him over the 25kg recommended amount.

The amount they should be having is the amount that keeps them at a healthy weight, the guides are just a very loose starting point to work it out from.

I can't advise on the pain medication as my lab with a ruptured ACL did pretty well on Metacam. But have you considered an orthotic support? My dog wore a leg brace from Orthopets for just over four years and it definitely extended her life. For most of that time she could run wearing the brace even though, without it, her leg was practically useless. https://www.orthopets.co.uk/

@StuntNun Yes, we spoke to a consultant orthopaedic surgeon who had carried out my dog’s TPLO. He didn’t think he was a good candidate, as my boy is funny about things touching him- even a bandage, he will just refuse to use the leg at all. Was the same with a halti- just locks down and refuses to move. I’ll have another look at them.

A few people have suggested Metacam, I just worry about his bowels /ibs. Yumove goes straight through him unfortunately, I gave it away.

Metacam isn’t hugely likely to do anything galliprant isn’t doing already and has more chance of side effects. That’s my understanding if it anyway, you can check with your vet as I’m not a professional.

You could ask about adding Amantadine in, I know it’s sometimes used with NSAIDS.

Pardale instead of the Tralieve? That might be worth discussing the codeine part isn’t as strong as tramadol, but, the paracetamol part can help as it works differently.

You could look into CBD oil... it’s ok to add in with everything else, no clue how well it works as I only tried it for a couple of weeks with the last dog when I was at the throw everything at it stage but nothing was working anyway, but some people say it makes a huge difference.

But honestly, getting weight off him as fast as you can will help loads.

Massage! I think it really helps them. You don’t need to pay for it, look it up on YouTube.

My old girl had arthritis and I would just give her a massage every other day or so. It’s really just a form of rubbing/firm pressure around all the joints. Knees, hips, shoulders and spine. They just love you for it because it’s undivided attention. Used to sit behind her while she stood, and massage her. If I stopped she would look over her shoulder as if to say “don’t stop, more more”.

She was also on tramadol and metacam now and then.

Oh we did try cold laser treatments as well, I didn’t see much benefit from them, short term it did, he was more comfortable right after it, but it didn’t make a difference overall... but, he had a spinal issue as well, so hard to tell if one issue was a bit better if the other wasn’t.

We’ve tried laser treatment, didn’t seem to do anything for us either.

I have looked at the massage videos, he loves it when I rub him down with a towel, I’m very squeamish though so not sure I could massage him properly. (He has had TPLO so there will be metal in the leg somewhere! I have googled and found “k9 massage” and have sent an email. I will try doing them myself as he dislikes the car lately. Anything is worth a try - thank you .

He seems a little better today, not groaning and moving a without displaying quite as much discomfort.

My senior dog also had her TPLO surgery a few years back. It really is hard to watch when your dog is getting older. It's great to know that the moaning was gone. Mine also had that symptom and she stopped playing and eating. That's why we went to the vet and it was explained to me that she had an ACL tear. Surgeries are quite scary since my dog was already 12 years old at that time. But after reading a lot of articles from different websites about ACL surgeries, it really isn't scary. You just have to always be there for them before and after the surgery.

my boy is fourteen and a half has arthritis and generally had an iffy back for some time. He is now on Metacam once a day tramadol twice a day and half a paracetamol 3 times a day and it is working for him. He also now has a large memory foam topper with a duvet on top. He sleeps so much better on a large flat surface rather than a dog bed it’s a pleasure to see him laying flat on his side stretched out and totally supported, it has really helped him. Good luck it’s not easy is it.