German Shepherds - yay or nay?

[Salamamca]

I grew up with German shepherds but I’ve seen and heard so many horror stories lately about crazy, neurotic, nervous, reactive and aggressive lines.

Has the breed gone down the pan? We’re considering our next dog but unsure what to get.

Two separate friends got GSDs a couple of years ago. Neither wanted neurotic, nervous dogs, and neither wanted the semi-disabled slope-backed ones either. Both puppies have turned into gorgeous traditional GSDs, good natured and well-trained. One owner took her eye off the ball and her dog now has guarding issues round the car but that is a recent thing. So research your breeders and ask people with the type of dog you want where they came from.

You're describing a lab, or a retriever if you want the extra hairy version of this 😊

There are no "right" breeds, just unreasonable expectations of them and ill fitting environments for their hard wired attributes. Don't try and wedge a square peg into a round hole with a Dobie or a GSD. There's an obvious choice right there under your nose.

I have a GSD. Working lines, perfect scored parents - both trial dogs, did my research.
Temprament he is AMAZING, not reactive, super good with kids. Great in nearly every way. Lots of training to do.

HOWEVER.. Given that he came from great lines and I did my research he has cost me nearly 3K in vet fees due to joint issues. Currently we are waiting for specialist to do lameness assesment. No idea what happens next. He is not even 12 months - he is straight backed, brilliant confirmation, working not show lines. I say all this to caution you - even with amazing parents and confirmation its still a lottery. Nearly every other GSD I know is reactive. Out of 12 in my trainers classes - 11 are reactive and most are very badly put together. So I don't think its a breed that is having a good time. I'm in Ireland BTW and the UK from what I hear is the same. However I heard great things about Alsace Royale GSD in Ireland - they breed straight backed dogs too (not working lines) and they seem to do a good job and sell to UK. Small litters tho and not often. Look there. I have no affiliation but have admired their dogs a while now.

I should also have said - if you want a dog as you describe I'd look at rescues for a good cross - like collie lab maybe - a bit of hybrid vigor. I would not have a GSD again even though I love my boy.

salamanca it's not so much Scottie's are grumpy but that terrier thing ! He's quite feisty. He uses his growl to good effect. He's boss dog . But he is funny - my dd calls him the bipolar dog ....he's not full scottie but he definitely has the terrier temperament. I'd say my shepherd is more trustworthy round kids etc . But I do have a one in a million Shepard. The breeder I got him from was up north but he was her last litter, and sadly even though his parents were hip and elbow scored really sound he has a joint issue in one elbow. He's not been cheap to run ! He's on medication and his insurance premiums became unmanageable as he's aged . I love him soooo much but I doubt I'd get another the same . He is my baby bear and a real gentle giant . I took him the our jubilee garden party and he licked all the other pups . He can and does bark at other dogs if he's on a lead and if they are , no idea what that's about . But on the whole he's a fabulous dog - I just don't think I'd be lucky enough to get another with his temperament now in the uk .

Leonberger

I’d like something big and intelligent, low prey drive, mid level energy, child friendly

You DEFINITELY do not want a German shepherd or a Dobermann.

Two high prey drive, high energy, demanding breeds.

I don’t know about Dobermann’s, but German shepherd (like most herding breeds are sensitive and generally not that sociable with kids and strangers)

Unfortunately this is just not true. Bad breeding makes dogs with issues and you can socialise and train and socialise and train and you will still have a dog with issues.

A dog is only as good as its owner is just incorrect

Well, my user name gives my preference away but I frequently have a Hungarian Vizsla to stay, often for weeks at a time. I've known him since he was a pup and he's a really lovely dog. He might be too high energy for you as a youngster but once mature he's been pretty easy and very adaptable but labs can be like that too. He's very trainable, very loving and his owner takes him everywhere. He's a bit of a wimp and would rather roll over than get in a scrap, my BT is very much the boss but the viz is happy to play nicely with a much smaller and rather naughty terrier. We have a couple of GSDs locally and from what I've seen I wouldn't want one as they seem to be rather one person dogs.

XelaM I love leonbergers - I coveted one forever but my god they are big - you need a car to accommodate one and I'd say a large garden . I was at Crufts in March and went round all the breeds and they are still my favourite giant breed but I think finding a good breeder is difficult.

Gorgeous pictures.
I'm following this thread with interest. I've always loved GSD as I grew up with one and remember her being a big softy. But after her no more dogs so am very inexperienced. My partner has always had dogs and I've always considered him to be experienced but these comments suggest otherwise. I'll continue to love them from afar though

Every GSD I’ve met in recent years has been reactive and unpredictable

Same here. It's such a shame because a well-bred, well-trained one is a joy. A friend of mine had two and they had amazing temperaments, but sadly both passed away quite young - I think due to heart conditions.

However, the owners had them out all day - they got tons of enrichment, exercise and socialisation which is vital I think. They're pretty intense dogs.

Absolutely, they are very easy to train, so recall is easy once they are past the excited to meet everyone and everything puppy and adolescence stage. Interestingly, once they reach about 4-years-old, they seem to lose interest in others (humans and dogs) unless they are other Poodles! They are not unfriendly and will say hello if encouraged, but are really only interested in their own family and other Poodles!

True, but you include Poodles and what Poodles want more than anything is us to be with and please their human/humans!

“True, but you include Poodles and what Poodles want more than anything is us to be with and please their human/humans!”

To be fair, poodles are also gundogs, lol - I think I lost why I’d put them in there tbh.

With poodles it’s not so much behavioural issues as just being too clever for their own good sometimes, they tend more towards things like working out how door handles work and stuff like that than not being biddable.

@tabulahrasa I have heard of some who do that sort of thing, but non of my 5 ever have.

GSD are my first love. They are amazing, loyal, intelligent, protective.

but…if you want a family dog you can take anywhere and expect it to love everything then they are not it. They are by nature suspicious, always watching for the next thing. They are designed to be one family dogs and will by nature protect the home but people get them and wonder why a hard wired behaviour can’t be trained out.

They need a lot of exercise, hours. They won’t be content with a wander around the block.

Add to this, the breeders breeding for massive dogs (they by nature should not be huge, a fully grown breed standard male should not be over 40kgs) or random colours or just churning out dogs with no thought to temperament.

I wouldn’t have another after the last one goes, as far as GSD go she’s pretty perfect but a Labrador she is not and I haven’t got the time or energy to train another one!

If I wanted a medium size biddable family pet I would probably go for a golden retriever.

Btw, I wasn’t saying they don’t make good pets, just pointing out that intelligence is overrated as a trait.

When people say they want an intelligent breed because they want a pet that will be easy to train, it’s not the intelligence that makes it easy to train.

Pretty thick but biddable makes a very trainable dog 😂

My brother currently has a 5yo GSD. He's not reactive as such, and he's never shown any aggression, but he's not like any dog I've met before (and we both grew up with GSDs) I can't put my finger on it, but I never feel quite calm or relaxed around him.

I've known some gorgeous GSDs, but there seems to be a huge amount of variation and unpredictability within the breed, and I wouldn't risk that with a dog of that size and type. Take heed of PP who say they are very experienced, and yet some dogs turn out to be fundamentally unsuited to human cohabitation.

Get yourself a normal, boring family dog, that won't win you any "tough, cool points". Fwiw, all puppies are hard work, and labradors are absolutely not an exception to this.

I actually agree with you about poodles. Ours was incredibly intelligent and figured out straight away that he didn't need to follow any of our rules because we were completely inexperienced owners 😃He was not easy to train. Our pug is maybe not as clever as our poodle was, but very biddable and easy to train.

@tabulahrasa I hear you!

I think a lot of it depends on the owner. If you have no experience of large breed working dogs then don't get one. If you do then it's a yes.

Op let me know if you'd like to see a video of my boys doing obedience work . The scottie is very clever but ignores me most of the time and cos he's little I didn't really press the training but the big bear is amazing at obedience because I put the work in from the day I got him . I got a gsd because I work with them (police ) and saw how amazing they are . Now mines not a police dog he's from show stock but. I slopey back end - and as I've said he is the absolute nicest tempered pup ever . But they do need a firm hand and understanding the breed is key . My boy herds me . When we are out he is constantly looking back for me , he isn't particularly anxious but he feels his job is to guard me and that's ingrained so it takes work to show him I'm there to guard him not the other way round . I absolutely adore this breed . I'm toying with approaching our dog dept to see if I can go on the list for a failed police dog . The only reason they fail is if they're too nice ....so that would be perfect for me because they've already had all the initial training and obedience work . I wasn't a particularly experienced dog owner but I did put the work in tho I do feel my boy is a one off really in terms of temperament. That said I've seen a police dog hunt someone down , then sit quite happily in the back of a car with me and lick my ear . It really is all in the training I think . My breeder told me to steer clear of funny colours , stick to how they should be . I've maybe been very lucky but I do have the names of a couple of breeders I'd consider getting another from recommended by my boys breeder . I can't imagine my life without my boy . But maybe I should take a break from a big breed when he goes ....
Oh and he's long haired so the grooming and mess isn't for the faint hearted either ! He manages to leave greasy marks against the walls because he always chooses to sleep against a wall . (Or in my bed !). I'm forever running round with the hoover and wet wipes ! I love him tho .

As the name suggests I’ve GSDs , just 2 now though, and 1 collie and a little spaniel.

Absolutely don’t do it. I’ve loved mine to bits but never, ever again. My bitch is a lovely, sweet girl but she’s also 11 and took a decade to get to that point. She’s big, square type and people and dogs avoid her like the plague. My boy (from good working lines, well health tested, so carefully socialised and trained to a high competition standard, has competed in Ob, working trials) is a whiny anxious wreck despite so much training and time. He’s ever so sweet with our DC and us, and little ones we meet out and about, but would rather it was just him and me together in the arse end of nowhere. He’s perfectly under my control out walking, great on lead and has amazing recall because he’s only ever 8 ft in front.
He’s also incredibly beautiful with permanent up ears so people stare at him, doesn’t help with nerves tbh. Dogs hate him, bark and lunge at him all the time- he’s grumbly/woofy as a result though does have a few select mates, and I can put him in a down stay he will not move from if I need to.
The genetics in say, a slight little lab bitch will mean when faced with what they think is a threat or danger they’ll submit or dart away. In a working line male GSD? They can’t control that defend bark and oooof about them. And they see threats everywhere, are scared of all sorts. They’re panicked! All the time. It’s not a great life.

I work collie bitches now and they are so much easier!

I’d get a greyhound OP.