Our dog bit DS. What next?

[newnamefortoday]

NC for this one. Our JRT bit 4yo DS on the foot at the weekend. Not terrible, but a huge bruise, puncture wound, visit to minor injuries and antibiotics. We’re not sure exactly what happened, dog was in the garden, DS climbed on the gate as he has done dozens of times before but this time the dog bit his foot as he put it through. Just heard a snarl then a scream. Dog knew exactly who it was as the gate is between garden and house, not the road. It would have been much worse had the gate not been between them. We also have a small baby. We are obviously considering dog’s future and keeping him separated for now. He snarled at my mum this week and caught my ankle snapping at me last week. He’s always been a bit of a grumpy terrier but has never bitten before so we’re considering all possibilities. He’s quite old. Lots to think about but with a small baby we can’t take any chances. What would you do next, apart from taking dog to vet to check for pain etc? Would you expect any follow up from SS or HV through the hospital?

HesA10ButNothing why can't you believe a vet suggested PTS? Clearly the vet talked about the situation with the owner and did what only vets are qualified to do. Nobody on a forum should have the audacity to believe they know better than a very who has actually seen the animal.

I think it's quite obvious that the vet made a decision based on what was best for the dog and the family.

No matter what people will optimistically say, rehoming an older dog is difficult, let alone one with aggression and epilepsy. Life in a rescue with little chance of rehoming is no life for a dog.

(I have a JRT from a rescue and was deliberately looking for an older dog, would have been happy to have one who had some issues that I, an experienced owner without children could cope with. The dogs who were in rescues for years were the same profile as this one. Over 5 years old, aggression or "it's complicated" behaviour and health conditions. They don't find homes. They sit in kennels for years. It's no life.

HesA10ButNothing why can't you believe a vet suggested PTS? Clearly the vet talked about the situation with the owner and did what only vets are qualified to do. Nobody on a forum should have the audacity to believe they know better than a very who has actually seen the animal.

I have worked with a huge number of vets over the years. It’s just not how the conversation goes in situations like this.

The vet would be told that a dog has suddenly changed behaviour, including biting a child, and then a few days later had a fit. They would examine the dog, get a history, ask about possible poison ingestion, accidents etc and advise a range of tests and scans. Usually starting with bloods to look for infections, liver issues etc. They will suggest possible causes. No diagnosis will be made without tests because it’s not possible. Epilepsy would be mentioned as a possible cause. They will explain that some of the possible causes will be treatable, epilepsy often being one of those, and some not. They would only talk about putting to sleep if the owners brought it up because it really could be something very treatable.

I have never known a vet to suggest putting to sleep a dog that until last week was absolutely fine and had never bitten. Until last week this was a perfectly healthy dog living a normal family life.

Nine is hardly any age for a JRT. Their average lifespan is 16 years but many live longer so I don't understand why people are talking like this is a geriatric dog.

OP, if you don't want to treat the epilepsy please contact a rescue who will be willing to. Also your vets are shite. Get a new one. I had a foster dog develop epilepsy in my care. My vet referred her straight to a specialist for further investigation. She had medication from the first seziure. No vet would decide not to investigate epilepsy further. Oddly enough she was a JRT. I haven't heard from her adopters for a while but we kept in touch for a several years after she was adopted. I still have them on Faceache and they still post the odd pic of her. She looks quite happy and settled. She'd be around 15 now. She was 4/5 when I had her.

HesA10ButNothing without wishing to out myself on a public forum, I'm not inexperienced in the vet consulting room either :) I think our assumptions around how the conversation went are different - and (obviously) either, or something else could be true because neither of us were there.

I imagine the vet side of the conversation went a lot like what you said - but I also imagine the OP discussed with them their concerns about keeping their child safe, as well as lack of insurance and money to fund proper investigations. I imagine the vet also knows the local rescue and rehoming scene reasonably well, as well as demographics in the area.

I imagine that following all of the above discussion about the whole situation, the OP may have said something like "I can't afford that and i don't want to keep the dog," at which point it would be logical (and correct IMO) for the vet to say that in that case the best option may well be to PTS.

Because a dog who has aggression and bite history, who isn't young, who has a condition which requires further diagnosis and may well need life long meds or palliative care, is unlikely to cope well with a change in environment to a rescue or foster, and unlikely to ultimately find another home which is suited to his future needs.

That’s not really suggesting it in the way OP has explained though which is exactly what I was hinting towards.

Personally I love the vets that make irresponsible owners like this have to ask. The vet has the awful job of putting to sleep an animal which may have many happy years left if treated, it doesn’t do any harm if the owners have to own up to their irresponsible behaviour and feel a bit shitty too.

@starfishmummy

A dog that starts biting due to health issues is not a blood thirsty monster. Some of the softest, most loving dogs on this Earth can turn aggressive if they are in pain/seriously ill. That doesn't make them evil. Even if the dog was aggressive for no reason (extremely rare, there is nearly always an underlying factor) he shouldn't be treated unkindly. So yes, there is no harm in considering what is kindest for the dog as well as the child in this instance. Which in the situation, could well be having the dog put to sleep. Either way, the dog can't stay in OP's house.

I can’t believe people are suggesting putting this dog through the stress of rehoming. The absolute kindest (but hardest) thing for your DH to do for his old friend is to have him quietly pts at home.

I would absolutely not kill the dog (you can dress it up as PTS but what you mean is kill him). Of course you should prioritise your kids over the dog but the dog is also a member of the family who you presumably love. If this is new behaviour there must be a reason for it. I would keep them separate unless supervised and consult a behaviourist who can advise.

This. Find him a quiet home without children etc where he can live out his final years.

Would you expect any follow up from SS or HV through the hospital?

Yes I would expect follow up and I know that there would be a clear expectation of removal of the dog. As an ex HT I know that there would be no tolerance of prevaricating about the dog and an expectation that the dog was not around the children anymore, supervised or not.

Sorry that you are dealing with this, and for your husband who is obviously struggling to see the reality of the situation because of his love for the dog. I hope you can find a way through.

The members are notorious for not liking dogs

That's nonsense, loads of people on MN are dog owners!

However, a dog that bites a child has to be dealt with. If it can't be rehomed in a safe environment away from kids, the only other option is to be put down. That is the stark reality.

The OP was "lucky" that her own child was involved (and that it was a minor injury). Had the dog bitten another child she and her DH might have been prosecuted. They certainly would be if they kept a dog they know has bitten before, and it then did bite someone else's child.

Out golden retriever developed epilepsy. He had four fits. We have good insurance and had an MRI and full neurological work up. Although we still ended up paying money towards his treatment, The tests revealed nothing, apparently it is not uncommon in pedigree dogs. He is not aggressive.

Before you consider having him pts, please go to another vet for a second opinion and get a scan! Your dog is still young. Our JRT’s have lived long lives in our family farm. They prefer not being around children and love to run. I hope to hear some good news 🤞

Exactly, let’s just get rid of the old dog without checking what it may be wrong with him🙄🙄

A nip at a foot through the gate could be a game gone wrong; but I think you're mistaken to regard itas a first offence. Very recently, the dog has threatened two full grown adults. Now he's hurt a child; AND you have a baby.

The fact is you'll never trust the dog again and will spend the rest of its life on edge waiting for another attack. The family pet relationship is broken for good.

I'm sorry but unless you can rehome him , it will have to be PTS.
Rescue charities could find it very difficult to rehome an aggressive dog with a history.

We had to rehome a JRT in very similar circumstances. My DH was very very resistant until the dog tried to bite a customer at our shop.

she was miserable and grumpy about an unexpected baby arriving and we struggled on for about 18 months with the behaviour but I said the saddest “I told you so” would be the one after the dog had seriously injured a child and finally FINALLY my DH relented.

She was rehomed with some people we knew and who understood she can be a handful and had been deeply unhappy for a while. They managed her issues brilliantly and she settled well in a new home where she felt more relaxed.

She then lived to the ripe age of 16 having had a brilliant life in her new home and popping in to visit DH at work occasionally.

We were very sad she finally had to be PTS due to suddenly having fits and it being the right thing given her age and that she was starting to suffer.

Some people were utter cunts to us about rehoming our dog because we had a changed family dynamic (that we had NOT planned) and because she was unable to adjust and was unhappy, but we kept our child AND our dog safe and allowed her many more happy years being her mostly awesome self that she was before our family changed significantly and she couldn’t cope (despite everything we tried, and believe me, we tried)

I got bitten badly by a dog as a toddler. The dog wasn't ours. It got put down.

I'm also now a dog owner.

Unless the dog is a puppy that was playing or a child was bullying the dog (obvs not the case here), then biting a child is a hard line. PTS or rehome, going on advice by pet. I sympathise with your DH but he's being negligent to your child, you and the dog by dragging his heels on this. Is he personally supervising the dog 24/7 at the moment?

could he have dementia?

My grandmas dog had dementia, I was 7 and had grew up around him and one day out of nowhere he went for my throat, I had over 350 stiches and the doctors said I was extremely lucky.

Turns out he was going blind (common in the breed) and had dementia, something just snapped in him and he ran through the house in attack mode and I was just the first person in his way.

Not sure how new small baby is, but dog could be feeling put out/jealous. Our's never got over the arrival of baby. Needs to go or it could be the baby next.

If he's old it's possible he's got dementia or he could be unwell. Best to go to the vet but you might need to make a decision if he's now aggressive and not rehome

Do you not have insurance?

@Monzeitia With a child and a baby, it's not really a case of 'getting rid of the old dog', the OP is prioritising the safety of her children. Surely you'd do the same?

You can’t keep him and I think sending an older dog to a rehoming centre is cruel. PTS is the only route in this situation. Take responsibility for his final moments , make them as stress free as possible , stay with him and talk kindly to him. I have stayed with two dogs during the euthanasia procedure and done well it is calm and painless.
Unless you have a new home for him to go to, taking him to a centre will be incredibly stressful for him and unlikely to be successful.

Your insurance may now not cover incidents relating to him biting other people - now it’s a known issue. I really hope you’re keeping him on lead when out and about. It’s one thing to risk your own children but entirely another to risk others in a park or on a walk.

it sounds as if you know what the right decision is - although I absolutely do appreciate how tough that is.

Whilst further investigation and training would usually be a great idea and what I’d also suggest, I don’t this that’s conscionable or possible for a home with 2 small kids. Personally I would be forever anxious about it happening again and if you keep them separated (more than it sounds like you already did), it would only take a momentary lapse in concentration to have a horrid incident. And also, that’s no life for the dog to be forever separate from his family.

so sad. Xx

We had a dog that bit my daughters arm. So much so he fractured it. It was a tiny hole and a very quick bite. We had him put to sleep. Ss and police contacted us and said we didn’t have to but as heartbreaking as it was because he was fairly young: we had him put to sleep. Never regretted it. It was the right thing to do