In tears over spaniel - please help

[Herewegoagainffs]

I am at the end of my tether. We have a 6 year old working cocker. He’s wonderful in so many ways and we love him. We have 3 small children he is fabulous with but…

HE IS SO EXHAUSTING IN THE GARDEN. All he does is bring object after object over to us to throw for him. It’s boiling so we have the doors open and then he brings them in the house. He has popped over 100 ball pit balls. He brings pine cones, rocks, clumps of mud.

NOTHING WORKS. We have tried ignoring him/ we have tried sending him inside. We have tried throwing a ball for varying amounts of time. Nothing helps. He is walked for several hours a day. He gets plenty of attention and stimulation. It’s driving me to distraction and I am at my wit’s end I just want to enjoy my garden and not be constantly harassed.

we sent him every summer to a gundog trainer for a month as he shoots in the autumn and last summer the gundog trainer said he just refused to retrieve properly and he was thrown off a shoot with my husband. He’s just lost the plot I don’t even know what to say anymore we have spent thousands on training, hours and hours of training at home and exercising him etc and I don’t know what we can do.

all ideas welcome please!

@SirSniffsAlot

i love you!

DSis’s working springer is exactly like this, she’s exercised really well but it doesn’t make a difference. Tbh we either ignore her or lock her out of the way if we’re in the garden.

He is 12 now and he brings me his soft toys to play , but he only does it a couple of times a day usually in the early evening , he whines and puts the toy on the chair and keeps nudging it but he’s best ignored as when you start playing he has no off button and I’m not spending the evening throwing a plush walrus round my lounge .

He needs to learn to have down time. He sounds over exercised and over stimulated to me. You have to teach this to dogs many won't naturally just learn it especially if growing up in a busy home with children. Start shutting him in a quiet space with a kong and access to water for a short period and build it up. Don't give into demands. Do you give a toddler chocolate if they keep asking again and again? Probably not. Treat the dog the same 'not now' 'go to your bed'. It will sink in but spaniels are relentless and it will take time to undo what you've inadvertently encouraged.

It will depend on each dog but some do need continuing with their training until they are middle aged. If you don't keep up the training at home then you shouldn't expect him to get his act together for a few short weeks in the shooting season, working dogs are continually trained prior to and during the season and then given a break afterwards.
I would honestly resume daily gundog training into your daily walks and then it isn't adding extra time into your day.
The behaviour he is exhibiting in the garden is basic retrieving, couldn't you turn this into 5 mins of dummy work per day, this will direct his natural instincts in a more positive way and by only using the dummies you will create the association that dummies = work + fun which may help with the constant bringing you things to throw.
You need to work with his natural instincts.

Just a thought. He had hours of walking then dropped to 90 mins? So he is fit and bored?
Braingames?
Redirect?
Look at what you’re feeding and how. So scatter feeding etc.
Teach a settle

How do I teach to settle?

I have a working bred Golden. No where near as obsessed as your spaniel - but she would retrieve endlessly if I played along. She lives to retrieve - last week on the walk I was presented with some manky mens boxer shorts from the undergrowth 🥴.

A really useful command, used by trainers for Hearing dogs, is "game over". I taught her this from a pup. When I put the ball away and say "game over" - show empty hands - then that's it. The ball is not brought out again if she demands it - only when she's distracted and sniffing around.

It would be a challenge training an older dog with established behaviours - but can be done.

The key is you taking control of the timings of play. It's honestly one of the most useful commands I've come across. This is the first dog I've taught it to and it's brilliant.

Dogstrust etc have good advice.
I think the shoots, trainer and dog Walker may have added to the issue.

Yes to scatter feeding.
Don't feed from a bowl at all, change the garden to the place where he has to sniff out all his food.

Join the Facebook group Dog Training Advice and Support which is run by qualified behaviourists. They have lots of excellent support and advice on teaching dog to settle and undoing obsessive behaviour.

Have you taught a settle command? One of the first things i taught my dog was to settle down on a mat/bed. Offer the dog an alternative behaviour that you would rather he does which gets him praise and rewards. At the moment he's very much rewarded by your attention when he brings you things. I learnt how to teach settle from the dog training Facebook page mentioned above. She will settle pretty reliably anywhere now.

There are many ways to train a settle but I think it suits a 'capture' method quite well. This is where you keep an eye out for when the dog naturally settles and reward him for it and then add a cue word.

i.e. the dog lies down, as he is bound to do sooner or later. "Settle down" and give him a treat.

Repeat often enough and he will pick it up the other way round:

"Settle down"

He lies down

He gets treat

Repeat that often enough and you can start to reduce the treats back a bit.

Cockers are well known for needing their training regularly refreshed. The gundog trainer I use for my dogs always has cockers but told me that springers are better at remembering.

You’re definitely not alone - I can’t have toys for my spaniel to freely access at home. We use a ball about half the time on walks so it isn’t always expected. Once it’s been thrown she will not give up on wanting more and more.

Your dog sounds very fit too. With spaniels this is sometimes unhelpful because the more exercise they have the more they need. Brain games and toys like puzzle feeders can be better at tiring them out, rather than hours of exercise.

Ladies working dog group have excellent training videos including one on settling.

From a behaviourist angle I would say the behaviour is verging on Compulsive behaviour.

This can include constant licking, light chasing, spinning, tail chasing, fly snapping and constant ball chasing or chasing of any object that moves , there are ore behaviours!

The difference between Sirsniffsalot example is that the behaviour is rewarding to the dog when the behaviour becomes compulsive the dog, no longers gets the release of happy hormones just stress hormones and the dog has to work harder at the same behaviour to feel better but actually repeating the behaviour just increases stress and the loop is created.

First call for any compulsive behaviour disorder is calm. So I would bring calm into the situation in all occasions. Maybe even have onlead walks for a bit and make these calm sniffy walks. Feel free to hide food on the walks and put sniffing on command.

Encourage boundary training in the house so rewarding for being on a mat (loads more to it than this but can be found on the internet)

Calm treat rewards for your dog doing nothing, so not for looking at you, not for just lying down but for being calm and not action prompting any interaction from you.

Might be worth a 121 with a good qualified behavourist to get your on track. You sound like you know what you are doing just this one situation that is causing a bit of hassle to you.

If training your dog to settle
Get a mat
Put treat on mat
Say nothing
Dog goes to mat to eat treat
Calmly put more treats on mat

THEN and this is the important bit

throw a treat off the mat and give a release command eg OK
Dog wanders off mat to get treat
Your dog will eat treat and then choose to return to mat where it gets lots of treats.
if you allow the dog to return to mat from choice the learning is quicker and deeper.

When not training remove the mat.

Initially your dog may need you to put a treat back on the mat to remind them to go back to the mat but this will only be needed for a couple of times.
Build up to treating on the mat when your dog is in down position. If you always put treats on the mat rather than feed from your hand this also will happen quickly.

Through out all of this the only words you say are the ok release command , give your dog thinking time to work out I get treats when I am down on the mat
The aim being the dog will only every go off the mat if you release them.

No stress, no hassle for the dog just good times if I stay on the mat.

Another vote for the Ladies Working Dog Group. Some great resources there.

A FB group worth a try (esp if you want to get him back into work) is Gundog Training for Novices.

In your shoes I'd start with teaching a settle, and would also take on board the advice from @SirSniffsAlot

@Floralnomad 'I’m not spending the evening throwing a plush walrus round my lounge' is one of the best lines I've read on Mumsnet in years

@Ivedonethisthreetimealready

i 100% think it’s compulsive behaviour. Thanks for the advice!!!

will also try scatter feeding - great idea

I think you should try going to a gun dog for fun trainer yourself for a couple of 1-2-1 sessions. You walk a lot, but are essentially training an athlete and getting your dog fitter.
training is much more mentally tiring and will help them to settle.
a for fun gun dog trainer will help you identify some hunting and retrieving games and steadiness work and then do these out on your walks. I find 5 or 10 minutes steadiness work at the end of our walks works wonders.

Very very good point re his fitness levels I hadn’t considered!

i have done a few sessions alone with the trainer so I do understood what I need to do - it is just very difficult as generally we have at least one toddler or baby with us on walks so it’s hard to dedicate the the focus on the walk to the dog. I will try the scatter feeding tomorrow and see if I can train in the garden as the children are contained

Agree!!! 😃

this thread has really made me feel so much better

@Ivedonethisthreetimealready

thank you so much for the advice!!

can anyone recommend a behaviourist in Surrey please?

will join the fb groups.

will his bed work as a mat? If not, and I don’t want to seem stupid, could someone recommend the type of mat I need please? I want to do this properly!