For those with Leonbergers

[AllHailKingLouis]

I keep getting told not to get a male as they can be “challenging” … more so than in other breeds?? In what way are they challenging?

also, at what point is it “too hot” to walk a Leo? 20 degrees? More or less?

Challenging in the way a naughty teenage male with rampant hormones is, only 4 times the size of a normal dog.

My current boy is the sweetest most lovely dog at home. He’s been a dream to train and live with, no negatives in that respect. They aren’t desperate to please you like other dogs, they want to be with you but they don’t have the drive to do things that a dog like a collie would.

However, I would say the period between 1-2 was the worst. The problem with Leo’s is that most other dogs are very intimidated by them, you can’t just let them play with others without very careful thought because even the nicest dogs can freak out and have a go plus the fact they are big, clown like and clumsy and can hurt others without realising. Over time other dogs being aggressive to him affected my dog to the point he started to become nervous of others, understandably when 9/10 encounters resulted in a dog barking or snapping at him. It’s made him difficult to socialise, added to the fact he’s still entire so is full of testosterone. You really can’t neuter them early so they do also end up the targets of dogs who don’t like entires.

Ive ridden the storm now with training and experience but I can see how an inexperienced person could find themselves struggling. The average male is 60-80kgs so that throwing it’s weight around is not fun to walk. Ive seen quite a few males at shows that are full of themselves but they do mostly calm down by about 3 😄

Also, they are originally descended or have some genetics from livestock guardians. This can show itself in some Leo’s with some guarding instincts although it hasn’t happened with any of mine.

Oh temperature wise I wouldn’t bother over about 20, they would rather lie in the pond than walk if it’s warm/humid.

Thank you @Leonberger - I don’t intend to let my dog play with other dogs, would this help do you think?
Im intending to train him to ignore other dogs

(current owner of a highly reactive Dobermann who has learnt the hard way!)

We don’t allow ours to play with others either really, mostly because of the size and because I got sick of mine being bitten!

Mine will happily ignore others dogs, they go to training and ringcraft and neither look twice at other dogs so if your not bothered about him playing with or saying hello to others I can’t imagine you’ll have a problem!
My male can be growly if certain dogs run up in his face when he’s on lead so I tend to avoid off lead places that would be busy (the beach!)

When he was younger he did go through a phase of lunging at other dogs, it lasted a few months and was much easier to train out of him than with my German shepherd He’s very greedy so a bit of cheese and he forgets they are even there. I think that’s quite a common problem as I’ve seen a few people mention it with teenage males in particular, but I can’t say it’s any more prevalent than in any other breed. Obviously with a giant it is very intimidating to others and it’s harder to physically control them if you need to so it is more of an issue than if you had a small breed (where most people would just laugh at the little fluff barking thing 😆)

Females are mostly quite a bit smaller so physically easier to handle. Personally, I just use a headcollar!

Thank you so much ☺️ My Dobermann has proven impossible to train out of reactivity. She started this when she was 6 months old (after previously going to obedience classes and organised dog walks etc!) - she’s now 3 years old and is still highly reactive 😞 I just never want another reactive dog again.

can I tell you what I imagine life like with a Leo and you tell me whether I’m looking at the wrong breed or not?

So … Monday, 1 hour walk morning and night
Tuesday … same
Wednesday … long walk in the countryside, maybe 2 hours or so with another 1 hour walk at night
thursday … 1 hour walk morning and night
Friday … long walk in countryside again
Saturday … obedience class and then day trip to the forest or whatever
Sunday … ringcraft/watersports and long walk/beach

obviously week to week roll vary but this is a general idea. Lots of offlead walking too … ?

Mine would be happy with that but wouldn’t need that much exercise IMO. They are always really enthusiastic to go out but they aren’t speed demons.

It would also depend on how you want to walk, a nice relaxing walk with lots of sniffing for an hour or two they would love. An hour of power marching probably not.
They don’t pull on lead because that’s too much effort, if they are off lead I tend to have to shout at them to catch me up.
They do a zoom or two and that’s it, back to plodding.
I often walk mine along to the beach, have an ice cream/coffee and a wander around and they are more than happy to sleep under the table.

If it’s hot they won’t go out or do very much. In the winter the coat takes a lot of maintenance to keep dry and stink free.

I usually walk mine for about 45mins morning and night, a couple of miles off lead. If it’s hot I skip it and they mooch around the garden wrestling with eachother equally happy (wheras the GSD will be climbing the wall!)

God they sound absolutely ideal! Power marching isn’t my idea of fun either 😂

I’d love a dog I can plod along the riverbank with for a couple of hours finishing off with a swim in the lake (dog, not me) while I sit under a tree watching 🥰

They would love that! As long as it involves a rest and a snack mine are enthusiastic 😄

They are the most active of the giants. They will walk every day and be happy about it, but they aren’t on the same level exercise wise as a more working type dog in my experience.

That’s exactly what I need, my Dobermann tires me out so much, you just can’t exercise her enough 😞
how are you Leo’s off lead?

I have the opposite kind of male to @Leonberger not greedy, high prey instinct. He was a complete arsehole off lead in the country park between 12-30 months in terms of just buggering off to see other dogs and play with them. Intermittent obedience, No recall and nothing could tempt him not to dash off. Despite their size, Leo’s are very fast dogs. He’s now 5yo, 75kgs, and calmed down immensely and off lead is a dream. On lead he was a terrible puller until I forgot his normal lead and had to use a short show slip lead which changed his behaviour on lead instantly. That said, I absolutely do not let him off lead anywhere where there is a road as he has no absolutely no Road sense. Above 20 degs and it’s a very short morning walk (under 30mins) in the woods for us. Winter time we do 5km by the sea and he is never tired. He’s out for the count for the rest of the day though whatever the exercise. Mine has a giant coat (and at this time of year their winter coat is still falling out 😩) so any longer than 30mins above 20degs and he’d be in danger of passing out from the exertion.

if you have the space, a good hoover 😂 and don’t mind the mess they are exceptionally easy dogs to own. Just factor in the expense of owing a giant dog as everything is significantly more expensive (insurance, vet bills, meds, food, grooming). And don’t plan on sitting down with a glass of wine to watch uninterrupted tv in the evening as they like to play the Hokey Cokey with the door to the garden as soon as it gets dark…In, out, in out.

Also, be aware that some breeders do not let you choose what you are going to get and allocate you a puppy. There are also very long waitlists for the best breeders. Good luck!

@Netaporter

thank you! Do you reckon breeders can tell which pups have a high prey drive?

@AllHailKingLouis i doubt it. I think it’s a case of nature/nature. We have a lot of land which he has instinctively ‘patrolled’ since an early age without being trained to do so. He absolutely hates cats and foxes but I know Leo’s who can live with cats quite happily. In contrast to @Leonberger’s male, mine rarely growls and tends to walk away from other aggressive dogs he meets. He’s a lover not a fighter 😂

Its interesting to see the variation in the breed, especially as the gene pool is so small! Mine has 0 prey drive, lives with cats and chickens and can’t be bothered to patrol but he is very happy to watch from the sidelines where anyone who isn’t family are concerned. He isn’t aggressive at all… just uninterested, he’s the sweetest most loving dog with family.
Im not sure if I’ve done something wrong on the dog front, he has always been indifferent and just isn’t that interested in other dogs and would rather past but if they hassle him he gets fed up and will growl. Is your still entire out of interest @Netaporter?
My female on the other hand is everybody’s best friend!

@Leonberger mine is still in tact. I think they’re all different. My boy’s line is very calm so I think it’s just nature and nurture really..

I have a 6 year old leonberger bitch. Probably the laziest dog I've ever owned and I say this as a previous newfie owner. Absolutely agree with everything @Leonberger has said. I don't let her play much with other dogs as she has no idea of her size but we have a miniature poodle as well who she adores and who will play with her. And I don't walk her when it's very hot. But this is not a hardship to her. As walking is not a priority in her life. Simply the most loving, adorable dog I've ever had. A hairy, cuddly giant. But definitely not the dog for an active lifestyle.

Personally, I’d say aim for a bitch - it’s quite a few kilos less of a dog to handle!

My girl was amazing in lots of ways. No prey drive - lived with two cats (was shit scared of one of them!). Very low propensity for barking - neighbours either side have small barky dogs, she never reacted. In fact, it was so unusual to hear her bark that, when she did, it made me jump!

She haddoggy daycare from a very young age (the people who ran it had Leo’s themselves), so she was exposed to various types of dogs from early on. She was always fantastic with any dog, young or old.

She wasn’t without her issues. She was not the “typical” that’s detailed on many breed info sites. She was wary of people until she knew them. She was ok with cars, but hated anything else on wheels - scooters, bikes, motorbikes, etc.

The fur would fill a king size duvet (and more). It’s a sight to behold after a quick grooming session when they’re blowing their coat for the summer! The good thing is, they don’t drool. They will, however, forget to close their gobs after drinking, so trail water everywhere. My girl discovered the fact that she could blow bubbles in her water bowl - she found it very entertaining. And she loved the hose coming out in the summer - as soon as the tap was turned on, she’d sit to attention waiting to grab the water coming out!

Sadly, I lost her just before Christmas - she was 9.5 which is pretty good for a Leo. Due to personal circumstances, I don’t think I’ll be able to have a dog again. But, if I could, I’d have another Leo in a heartbeat.