My 2 dogs just had a fight

[dottieautie]

I have an 9 year old collie who’s fear reactive (barking but never contact) and gets anxious but otherwise well trained and very loving. She’s never been in an actual fight.

In the new year my MIL gave us one of her dog’s puppies (surprise litter very placid good natured mum and dad) a lovely retriever, easily trained and beautiful nature.

Older dog absolutely loved the puppy and became oddly maternal and we were all relieved how well they got on. They’ve been best of friends since the pup came to live with us.

Puppy is now 6.5 months and tonight they got in a proper snarling fight. They’re both big dogs so I had to pull them apart and hold them until one calmed enough to walk away. There was no way I could have let go and there was no one to help me.

The older dog got a fright and while there were no wounds she did limp for a while and the puppy clearly was the stronger dog. I’ve never seen him show any sign of aggression and I’ve no idea what started it (no toys or food nearby) but I’m concerned that this is the start of him trying to be dominant or them having more fights.

He’s due to get debollocked (the proper word has totally left my brain tonight) in a month or so and I’m hoping that might help.

What can I try to do to ensure this doesn’t become a regular thing? I have kids and I don’t want them getting in the way and being hurt or frightened by it.

Both dogs are now avoiding each other and firmly in the huff.

Is there anything I can do to stop this happening again or anything I can do to stop them if it does happen again that doesn’t involve 5ft nothing me trying to hold the two of them apart?

I have no advice about the fight but please, please don't get your puppy neutered at six months old - it's far too young and will likely cause more problems than it solves.

What triggered it?

Grab their water bowl and chuck it in their faces - if you're out and there no water handy then sand or dust in the face. Never put your hands in the way - you'll end up with a bite meant for the other dogs.

It could be they're finding their pecking order. Mine did same once and I had to chuck water over them to stop them. Everytime they go too far with play fighting nip it in the bud.

It sounds like your older dog was putting the puppy in its place. It was the correct thing for him to do, to teach the puppy some manners

The puppy is way too young to be neutered, 18 months is minimum really for a medium/large breed. You will end up with a perpetual puppy in a larger dogs body if you neuter too early, and the health risks are huge too

Have you missed signs this has been building up? It’s very rare dogs just go for each other

id give pup back to mil if you can unless you have a lot of time and support to work on training with them both and being able to keep separate or be observant to stop it happening again

as per pp do not castrate at 6.5 months unless some unusual medical reason and vet advice seems incredibly young

Has older dog been neutered

It won't be a regular thing once your puppy is fully trained and respects the hierarchy. If there isn't a firm and distinct hierarchy expect more of this to come. Obviously don't leave the dogs alone together and definitely not whilst the children are with them unsupervised.

Thanks. I hadn’t considered water. There were no obvious signs and it hasn’t been building up that I’d noticed, they weren’t even playing at the time. Both were behind the sofa and I had to go in and get them. There were no toys or bit of food there or under the sofa either.

I did wonder about pecking order/putting in place but I was worried about how strong the pup is. I’m hoping the older dog has learned from the experience now. I’m guessing she was instigator and hope she won’t try that again.

The vet said to get the puppy neutered after 7 months (thanks for the word, periM has me forgetting words a lot) because our older dog can’t be spayed due to a heart condition and risk involved to her both in the procedure but also pregnancy.

They have been so lovely together until now. Old dog has been playing with another dog for the first time in her life (she wouldn’t bother before). It may have been a one off but it worried me.

I bet you got a fright, op.

Male dogs can be chemically neutred/castrated now.

I'm not sure what age - 6.5 months seems very young - but chemical castration is a good way to 'calm' down various behaviours without it being permanent, if it causes unwanted behaviour changes.

I would see a behaviourist - it’s not worth the risk of not sorting this out properly. The earlier it’s tackled (correctly) the easier the fix will be.

Not to be alarming but when our bitch attacked our younger ddog it was a sign she was in pain.. She had cancer and has now has surgery. . Get a check up just to be sure op.

When I was a teenager, we had two dogs who were very similar - started off as friends, then started fighting. Unfortunately, despite a good trainer/behaviourist, they were never safe together again and we ended up keeping them separated with baby gates. Both were the same breed, and both neutered. They just really didn't like each other and had a couple of horrible bloody fights.

Wasn't my decision but now in the same position, I'd rehome the younger dog.

Is there any chance he could have tried to mount her? Coz I can fully understand a doggy equivalent of oh DFOD!

Thank you i’ll do that. She has a check up at the end of next week for her heart so I’ll ask then. She is showing signs of ageing and stiffness so it may be arthritis? She’ll be 10 at the end of the year.

That is very much a last resort but if I see any signs of aggression or not getting on in the next few weeks then it’s something we’ll have to consider.

That is a possibility. He has been nicknamed sirhumpsalot as he does like to hump most things/legs/cushions.

The younger dog will be stronger so the older bitch will need protecting. If he is exhibiting jumping behaviour the quicker he is neutered the better. Not fair if older girl is now uncomfortable in her own home. Could in-laws take back pup for a few years?

The vet said to get the puppy neutered after 7 months (thanks for the word, periM has me forgetting words a lot) because our older dog can’t be spayed due to a heart condition and risk involved to her both in the procedure but also pregnancy.

If you knew your bitch couldn't be neutered, why did you get a male puppy?

It's not fair to risk your pups' health and future temperament just because you have an entire bitch - can he go back and live with MIL, at least until he's old enough to be neutered?

MIL doesn’t want the pup back, even temporarily. The only alternative is to rehome and that seems premature with one fight. If it seems there are ongoing issues between the two then that is what we’ll have to do.

There were only male puppies and while I didn’t actually want to take one at all, I was overruled by the rest of my family.

The vet seems to think it is ok to neuter him as long as he is over 7 months and that there are no pregnancy risks before he reaches that age. I have to rely on their qualified opinion on that matter.

I'd not want to risk it again, but I got bitten a couple of times separating them, and we ended up at the vets a couple of times for torn ears. It was a very stressful experience and when we lost the older dog (not due to them fighting!) the relief was immense.

You'll never be able to relax with them and any heightened emotions could set them off fighting again. Even on walks, we had to keep our two separated because they'd go for each other.

Sorry to be a downer, but that was my experience. 😔

The vet seems to think it is ok to neuter him as long as he is over 7 months and that there are no pregnancy risks before he reaches that age. I have to rely on their qualified opinion on that matter.

Please, please do your research before committing to this.

While it may be "okay" to neuter such a small puppy, many vets will not neuter male dogs until they are fully grown for a reason. Dogs (like humans) need their hormones to mature properly and for their joints to fully develop - early male neutering can lead to joint problems further down the line and it can also affect temperament, causing the dogs to become fearful and reactive (as you're removing the "brave" hormone).

If your puppy is already fighting with your older bitch then neutering could make things even worse down the line.

Before you commit to a permanent change, I just ask that you do your research first as once you have him neutered there is no going back.

I had a similar situation once with a middle-aged terrier bitch and young much larger dog. They were really going for each other and I felt compelled to intervene.

In retrospect, it was only her putting him thoroughly in his place. IME since, mature bitches do not take kindly to lairy adolescent males getting above themselves - our older bitch regularly has sharp words with rude young males who belt up to her and get in her face, though she desists the second they back off.

If your dogs were behind the sofa, is it possible that the younger one wasn't able to back up and defer to the older one? (As backing off seems to be what is expected by the bitch in these situations.)

PS and yes, I'm another voice saying please reconsider early neuter. There is an increasing amount of research into the health implications, and they differ by breed.

Puppies give off some scent or something I think when they're young to older dogs, sort of like a 'puppy licence' which helps prevent attack but I think it wears off around this sort of age.