Dog returned from trainer / I'm worried

[themessygarden]

Have a lovely female lab, 5 years old, we never really trained her but she is generally a really good dog, she is the sweetest girl ever.

She has a few bad habits we have been unable to get her out of, pulling when on the leash, jumping all over visitors to the house and pawing everyone and anyone for attention, and no recall whatsoever.

We had a dog trainer recommended to us, and she spent a few days there while we were away. Got her back last night and she seemed subdued, I thought she must have been exhausted after a few days with other dogs and long walks. She was excited to see me and none of the usual jumping on top of me.

This morning I wanted to put her in another room and she was just sitting there and wouldn't move, so I went to grab her collar to guide her into the other room, which is how we have been doing it for all her life, and she absolutely cowered as if she thought I was going to hit her.

I don't know if I am overreacting, but I am absolutely gutted.

Is there anything else I should look out for to see if she has been 'mistreated' or trained in a manner that we would never have wanted her trained.

I've no advice but I couldn't pass by. My rescue boy cowers. He was kept crated (at least 18 hours a day) and was beaten by a man (he's terrified of men) before we got him. He's fine with women - no cower, lots of love. Now, after 18 months, he's fine with my DH, DS and NDN. But that's all.

FOr the first three months we had him he didn't bark. Not one sound came from him despite our other dog barking her head off at every chance. I was so pleased when he finally barked.

I think your boy was beaten, or so severely yelled at that he was deeply traumatised. He needs a lot of love and care. Go back to basics - ignore the bad, praise the good. And love him.

This morning I wanted to put her in another room and she was just sitting there and wouldn't move, so I went to grab her collar to guide her into the other room, which is how we have been doing it for all her life, and she absolutely cowered as if she thought I was going to hit her.

It doesn't sound particularly normal that you frequently have to put your dog on a collar to get her to move from one room to another. Why isn't she responding to commands?

Also very possible that she just really didn't want to move, hence the "cowering" as you perceived it and nothing at all to do with the time she spent with the trainer.

You should never send a dog away to be trained. Training should take place with the owner, you need to be trained too!

Have you any idea what methods were used? I’m suspecting not positive reinforcement.

Is the trainer a member of any professional bodies, e.g. APDT?

Do they have a website or social media page? If they do, do the dogs look relaxed in their videos or do they just look shut down?

Did the trainer do a handover with you, where they explained what training they'd done and demonstrated how to carry it out yourself?

I would take things very easy with her for the next few days, to give her time to decompress. I wouldn't take her on any walks or do any training with her.

How weird to send your dog away for training... learning to overcome challenging behaviour is about working with the owner and the dog together.

Did the trainer talk you through the work they'd done with your dog afterwards - techniques and commands? Cos the only way any training (of the right kind) will work is if you continue to reinforce it. Was it the trainer's suggestion for you to leave her and not be there?

Sorry OP. I'm not blaming you, but I think you were naive and misguided in sending your dog away for socalled training. It's highly unusual set-up and therefore quite likely that some unethical methods were used. Sorry. Please give your girl loads of love and try again with a properly accredited trainer where you're present.

what happened I’d one thing but what is important here is how you move forwards. Lots of kindness, games and reassurance and maybe in fortnight book a session for your and her for a fun training session. Less obedience and more working together, mantrailing, scent work or gun dog/retrieval work.
look out for how she is around raised voices, sudden movements or sounds. Maybe have a look online for reviews of the facility

I would never send a dog of mine to a trainer. It's you that needs to work with your dog so your dog follows your commands.

Oh no, did you pick one of those ‘dominance’ scumbags?

The type of ‘trainer’ that would take a dog away from its owner is likely to use long-disproven methods of violence and abuse. Did you pick a ‘trainer’ that does this?

I'm a bit confused. Did you sent her to the trainer just for training or was it an actual dog boarder who said they would try a few techniques out? Surely if you want a dog to be trainer the owner has to do it, otherwise how do you know what they have been doing? Sounds odd to me, and there is no way on earth I would send my dog away to be trained, and I would think anyone who did this couldn't be bothered to do it themselves.

Anyway, hope your girl is ok. Get in touch with the trainer to find out what they have done, and maybe just find a local dog class you can take your dog to every week or even look on you tube. You have train your dog, you can't just give that job to someone else.

Never grab your dog by its collar. Its not necessaery. You can train' come here' really easily yourself - in about a week it should be solid - pieces off
sausage as a lure and 'come here' shoud get your dog to you especially in the house. You can also teach 'lets go' and ' in your bed' those are all easy things to do. Why may I ask did you not think you could do these yourself or through a class over a few weeks?
I'm going to avoid criticising you but I think you will get roasted on this thread.

When I was a clueless first time owner I took my lab puppy for a one to one training session, was hoping to learn how to stop him jumping up. The trainer was recommended to me as someone who got results.

He also did week long residential training for dogs without the owners, and I could see them in their cages. There were a lot of dogs.
He walked my dog around in a big circle, after a short time dog jumped up and the man jerked the lead hard and hit him on the nose, dog cringed and whimpered.

I was furious and stopped the session, asked the trainer why he had hit my dog and he said it was just a tap and all part of the training, dogs had to know who was boss, etc. I said I didn't agree with this and left.

I felt so bad for the dogs in the cages, if the trainer could hit my dog when I was there, he was probably did a lot more hitting when it was just the dog and him.

You have a lab - usually one of the most food focussed dogs in the world. Training simple commands should be fairly easy with a food motivated dog. We adopted out lab at 4/5 yrs of age and trained him not to pull etc.

Remember it is you as much as the dog that needs to be trained and no residential trainer can do that.

Whatever happened you'll never know so now you just need to start from where you are, rebuild your relationship with her and work on simple commands.

Someone I know raved about him with her dog, who was really difficult (snapping at people and other dogs, running away, barking constantly) and they were at the point of considering rehoming him, he had her dog for 10 days and she said they got back a different dog and were so happy with the trainer. He is new to the area, so she is the only recommendation I had, no website. My daughter and I had worked with him for 2 weeks previously, mainly on leash pulling and recall.

I was going away for a few days and he offered to take her to board and continue the training. Certainly where I live, (not UK), I have heard of others who send their puppy off to puppy school for up to two weeks, so I didn't think it was that unusual. The plan is (was) that my daughter and I will continue with him for another few weeks.

For the leash pulling he used something called gentle leader, which is like a horse rein, I didn't like the idea of it but I looked it up online and dog trainers do use it, so I was reassured it was appropriate, and it seemed to work.

I feel so bad, at the end of the day all I really wanted was to be able to take her for a walk on leash.

Poor girl. Our dog went back to her breeder the first time we went away and came back cowering. Obviously we never sent her again, continued with positive training and she has her confidence back.

"You have a lab - usually one of the most food focussed dogs in the world. Training simple commands should be fairly easy with a food motivated dog. We adopted out lab at 4/5 yrs of age and trained him not to pull etc."

Now this is interesting, because this is what we were doing, but he said we were wrong to try to train her by offering treats as she would only respond to treats and not to our commands, hence why her recall was so poor.

sorry OP I didn't post to make you feel bad. My experience was 12 years ago. People are much less likely to use dominance based training now, also social media tends to name and shame those who use such methods.

and the lady who raved about him, said that her dog loved him, so I would never have guessed my dog would come back unhappy. It's heartbreaking.

No, you didn't. I couldn't feel any worse than I do now.

Oh dear - this is why most professionals do not recommend sending your dog away to be trained - as you have absolutely no idea what methods are actually being used.

I also agree with a PP who said you should never be holding your dog by the collar and using it to get them out of their beds. They should come when called or with the encouragement of food or a toy.

Please don't send your dog back there and find a positive reward based trainer who will come to your home and work with you and your dog in person.

My take OP is what's done is done, but you're worried about what went on so that trainer is not one to go forward with.

If I were you, I would look around for dog training classes you could go to with the dog, ones that use positive reinforcement. And whether or not you sign up to a class, spend 10 minutes a day working with the dog, doing "come!", "sit!", "stay" or whatever you think is needed. There are plenty of tutorials on YT you can watch for ideas.

Ultimately it is about building a good working relationship between you and DDog, and aiming for progress rather than perfection. Better to have to carry treats on all walks but at least know the dog will always come for them! - because the important thing is that you worked out a way to get DDog back to you when needed.

If the dog trusts you and knows you're not going to be mad about stuff, the long term prospects for training are much better!

Remember - it's a dog - there's not much going on inside that furry noddle, so there's no point in getting mad about anything bar the Must Stop Now things like eating next door's cat; it'll just be counterproductive.

It can seem like a long haul, but stick with it and even with the dimmest and oddest of dogs, you do see some progress!

Now this is interesting, because this is what we were doing, but he said, we were wrong to try to train her by offering treats as she would only respond to treats and not to our commands, hence why her recall was poor.

That's utter nonsense.

Most dog, apart from the odd one or two, are food motivated and whether you're clicker training or just training with food alone, food rewarding is the way the vast majority of dogs are trained.

Eventually, when the dog understands the commands the food reward can be phased out and of, course the dog will respond to the command alone. Does this man honestly think that police dogs have to be treated each time the handler wants the dog to perform a certain behaviour.

Training is an ongoing process and recall will take time and repetition. There's no quick fix.

This 'trainer' sounds completely ignorant about dog training.

You need to find a good reward based trainer and work with him/her and your dog yourself.

Sending a dog away for training doesn't teach you how to train your dog. Developing a bond between the dog and owner is one of the most important aspects of training successfully.

After my bad experience I tried local dog training classes, it was packed and chaotic and dog got too over excited to do anything. So stopped going.

Rewarding with treats worked, but I didn't want him to get fat so weighed out his food every day and used half of it for treats. Then once he was trained we gradually cut down, but he still got some occasionally for a long time to make sure he knew there was always the possibility of a reward.

May I ask what country you're in, OP? It does sound as though this trainer may use old-fashioned punishment-based / dominance training (still common in the US, I think) as opposed to positive reinforcement (the norm in the UK, and Europe).

Labs are biddable, eager to please and food-oriented, so positive reinforcement should help you easily overcome the few niggles you have - as you said yourself, she's not an aggressive 'problem' dog as such, just has few little niggles.

As others have said, what happened with that trainer is water under the bridge. Now you need to focus on rebuilding your dog's trust, and then finding the right trainer. Or just get on Youtube and try yourself