What To Do

[NotSureILikeThisOne]

I have a male CKCS who is three and a half. He has/had a number of health issues and is due at the vet for X-rays on Monday.

At his first vet visit as a puppy, the vet found a small umbilical hernia. His testicles also failed to develop properly and stayed inside his body and were tiny. These were both operated on when he was 6 months old.

When he was 2 he fell off the sofa (being greedy trying to get to food). The vet diagnosed a fluxating patella. This was operated on in December 2020.

During the X-rays taken preparing for this operation, he was found to have arthritis in both hips, one quite mild but the other more severe. We were taking a watch and wait approach with this with a view to a hip replacement.

Over the last few weeks, he seems to be limping on and off, is urinating all over the house and has snapped at a couple of dogs that have got too close when he was in the lead. He also can’t go through the night with out needing a wee, if he is crated he starts barking anytime from 5am onwards, if he is not crated we wake up to a least one puddle of wee. We have been putting puppy pads down but he chooses to go elsewhere. I think some of these issues are coming from him being in pain.

I took him to the vets a couple of weeks ago, they think he has a fluxating patella in the other back leg. He is currently taking painkillers and the X-rays are to look at the extent of his problems.

He is traumatised going to the vets and visibly shakes for sometime when he gets home. He is looking at a minimum of three more operations plus recovery time.

I am not sure really what I want from this post, maybe questions to ask the vet on Monday. Is it fair on the dog to put him through repeated operations, he is clearly not happy at the moment but is it to soon to think of the final option.

Thank you for reading.

We have a nearly 6 year old dog who has been at the vets numerous times including admissions and painful tests.

He is afraid of the vets and each time has issues afterwards like being afraid of certain noises.

We have now got to the point where we weigh up the benefits versus the stress we put him under so now instead of investigations we often opt for trialing drugs and only put him through any ops that have clear benefits with little downsides.

I have made this clear with the vets that we need to minimise the stress.

I think you need to be clear and confident with the vet about the impact this is having on your dog (I probably wasn't until recently but having done that they understand and are actively trying to work with us for some recent condition to minimise stressful visits).

I think we underestimate how awful it must be for them to be put through operations.

I had a yorkie with a grade 4 luxating patella. By sheer coincidence, our fat oaf lab fell on him one day & broke his leg, a week before his patella groove surgery. We had a brilliant local vet who lectured at the RVC & specialised in orthopaedic surgery go in & fix both at the same time! He had a plate on his fracture, the patella groove surgery & some figure of 8 thing with wire around the joint (no idea, guy was a genius with Meccano) He had to be crated & have the plate & part of the wire removed at 6 weeks, with very restricted exercise.

Chester wasn’t a happy bunny, but had excellent pain relief & was his usual loopy self within 2 days of the first surgery. He was more perturbed at being crated for six weeks! Unfortunately, his surgery failed after a year, so he went back to limping a few steps with his leg in the air, he’d reposition his leg, then he’d be back to have 4 legs on the ground. The groove was at the limit of how deep it could be; it just failed.

Until his last day, he was a 3 and 4 legged dog, he didn’t even break step lol! We’d go camping, he’d keep up with his 2 greyhound mates (after the klutz lab had long since crossed the Rainbow bridge), and he only needed anti inflammatories for his last few months (but that was more old age & osteoarthritis, like me lol).

Ches didn’t feel pain in that joint; our vet & the referral orthopod vet said as it was a congenital lux, there would be very little pain. Just a bit of an ow if it popped out then in (and he didn’t even notice his strides would be on 4 legs, then 3, then back to 4).

He had his compound fracture & knee fixed in the same op, ask your vet if, to save anaesthesia, one hip & the patella op on the same side could be done at the same time. Also, ask what the failure rate of the lux surgery is. Chester’s op was in 2000, so techniques have moved on!

As for the toileting, Chester rarely went 7hrs without a widdle (all his life) so possibly your little pup just needs an extra loo visit at midnight. It’s a pain, but even my 2 big doods now like a midnight wee. Pain may be a factor, ask your vet if it could be a cause for urination in the house. Could your pup have inflammation due to the hip/pelvis pain that is causing pressure & frequent emptying of his bladder?

Hoping your pup gets better soon, it’s awful when they’re poorly.

(There was a second surgery at 6 weeks to remove the plate & some of the wire, but he was as right as rain within a day - more grogginess as him & anaesthesia were not the best of friends lol).

You bought him as a puppy? What does the breeder have to say???
in terms of what to do, only YOU know your dog, I’ve almost always adopted older dogs so most have had some kind of health issues. I’m fairly proactive in terms of treating them and and, as long as they have an overall good quality of life, we go with whatever treatment is possible. But I know my dogs inside and out. When they’ve had enough, I just….know. And then I do the kindest thing, TBH though, with a young dog like yours, I would be pushing hard to improve his quality of life and PTS wouldn’t be my first thought. But you know him. He will tell you when he’s had enough……

My view is just because we can doesn't mean we should (I know plenty on here will disagree).
Dogs (cats horses or any other animal) doesn't worry about the future they dont think I'm might be PTS today and they also cant say "christ my hip is killing me today". We as owners have a duty to do the right thing for them this may include being PTS because you feel that your dog (cat horse etc) has reached the end of the road treatment wise and that actually this for him is the kindest thing to do.

It doesn't sound like he has much quality not life atm. If you do all the surgical interventions possible will that situation change?

That's the question.

The only regrets I've ever had about having an animal pts is when I've left it too long. It's often a really tough call, but be honest with yourselves and ask the vets to be brutally honest with you, that's the only way you'll be able to get to the right decision. Good luck.

Thanks for the replies.

He was at the vets yesterday for his x-ray. The arthritis has grown in both hips, grade 3-4 in each. The vet has recommended both hips be replaced at a cost of £6000 each. He also has some swelling on one leg which may be a problem with his cruciate ligament. The vet is getting a second option on this from a colleague.

If the ligament needs a repair, this needs to be done first, followed by the first hip, then the second allowing for a recovery period between each. The vet would want him on pain killers for the rest if his life.

I am waiting for a treatment plan from the vet but it could potentially be 12-18 months before all operations could be done. He is in pain, can only have 2 10 minute on lead walks and will need to be crated overnight and the majority of the day to prevent further damage. He can’t do any of the things he enjoys. I think PTS may be the kindest option as otherwise he could have over year of pain and I am concerned what his behaviour could be like at the end of this.

There are also financial implications as my insurance only covers up to £4000 per claim per year. The cost of the hip replacement has increased £2500 since it was first discussed 12 months ago.

I will wait for the vets treatment plan before making the final decision.

TBH, with that prognosis I would PTS. There is no hope of a full, pain-free, recovery - the dog would have to be on pain killers for life, which means likely to be break through pain at times, it really doesn't seem the kindest option to operate.

OP you know your dog best and that sounds incredibly stressful and long even if everything went to plan

Poor dog.
It’s so tough. For me, if it was a case of 12-18 months of operations/crate rest but then able to have a long fun-filled pain free life then great, go for it.
but to go through all of that but have to have painkillers for life? That suggests to me that it would be kinder to PTS.
You’d also have to consider the implication on his personality and temperament after the pain & ops.