Indoor urination

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I have a dog who is getting on a bit now. He was rehomed to me as previous owners got so sick of
his constant (secret) relentless urination in the house. He basically did scent or territory marking (tiny wee) all over the place when they weren’t looking and in hard to spot places and absolutely trashed their house. So I did know this when I got him. He is a nice dog in all other ways and seems happy, we all love him.

It wasn’t too bad to begin. I bought a carpet cleaner but didn’t leave him alone in carpeted areas and didn’t leave interesting and obvious things on the floor (like laundry or boxes). I put him out to the toilet regularly (watching him go) and taught him to go on a command. I got into a habit of getting the carpet cleaner out regularly and searching for any areas he might have done it and cleaning it with special dog urine cleaner. He is not allowed upstairs alone. He never does it in the main living area or the kitchen and he never does it in front of you.

Last week he got into my DD’s room by accident (total fluke how he got up there, something fell over onto the stairgate and knocked it down) and in the seconds of us realising and rushing to the gate and catching him, he did a big wee all over the middle of her bed. It took us 3 days of cleaning and bicarbonate to get the smell and stain out

it has got so much worse recently and today I reached breaking point I cleaned all the carpets and searched the whole house for wee, I took out all the items he had weed on into the garden either to clean or bin. I filled a bucket of hot detergent water and took it outside. I cried because then I realised he had done it all over the bottom of the bucket as well, so it was all in the kitchen sink, dripped on the floors etc. He wees over everything in the garden too - brooms, bins, plant pots, table, clothes pegs that might drop on the floor so everything is sticky and yellow although I can handle that

He is much worse in wet or cold weather as he doesn’t like to go out. He has even started I think doing pretend leg cocks in the garden then coming in and doing it indoors. It’s all behavioural
and I have had him checked by a vet many many times, as did his previous owner. I walk him twice a day and he always does small territory wee x 30 on everything he smells outside too

I just don’t know what to do with him. My house stinks. he eats nice grain free foods. He’s super healthy. He’s very loved. Is there any suggestions of how to stop this? He’s seen a behavioural trainer and even she couldn’t help 😭

Has he been neutered? X

Yes he’s neutered

Have you spoken to a qualified behaviourist?

His previous owner had about 3. Previous owner is a relative. Nothing worked. Eventually the admin of the endless urine got too much to cope with, with small children and the dog was just confined to the areas where he didn’t do it.

None of these are new issues it is a lifelong habit and I suspect I just have to learn to manage it, I can’t stop it now

behaviourist said it was all territorial, I have done almost all of the things advised (as did previous owner) and nothing works. I have the option to pay out a lot of money on a behaviour specialist and be in the same situation so I don’t know what to do

I’ve:
-ruled out a medical problem
-clean up any urine with enzyme cleaner
-positive reinforcement for going outside to the toilet
-watch him urinate outside before he is allowed in the house
-regular toileting and teaching him the command
-lots of enrichment activities, walks etc
-restricted access to certain areas of the house where he likes to do it
-don’t tempt fate by leaving things on the floor but this one is harder - shoes, bags, suitcases, boxes etc all have to be put away

he urinates up doors, he likes the corner of doorways, he likes anything that’s a pole or a post (clothes airer, chair leg, broom pole). He likes urinating on laundry bins, up the toilet. He’s a territorial terrier who is obsessed with scent marking

That sounds tough. Does he show any other signs that could suggest anxiety at all ?
I get that it’s probably mainly habit by now, but maybe something like adaptil diffusers in the house, a collar on the dog, or tablets, could help him as you retrain him and reinforce the outside thing.
I would also try walking him round the house on a leash, reinforcing his good behaviour when he sniffs but responds to you stopping him from having a pee- use his very favourite treat.
if you are in the UK, now would be the time to try to retrain as you would a puppy as it’s likely to be a bit warmer so he may be less reluctant to go outside.

He barks at other dogs on walks, but if he’s at the groomers with another dog he is happy and friendly and will play.

he is very territorial about birds, cats etc coming in the garden and will bark at loud sudden noise like thunder

when he is doing the wee indoors he’s not anxious, he’s either excited (sneaking upstairs) or he’s relaxed and it’s just a habit he sees an object of some kind and he’s like, ‘oh hi, here is my wee, smell of me’. He really likes weeing I think it’s his main hobby in life. Walks take ages. I know him well enough that he knows it’s wrong as he does it secretly when you aren’t looking as if you ever catch him indoors he will put his tail down and look sorry for himself.

usually find the wee area as he is dense enough to sniff it in front of me

Have you tried any medication for anxiety? Stress/marking can be a sign of insecurity and anxiety.

I would also maybe look at a supplement called D-Mannose which can help to improve bladder health and control. It's herbal and tastes of chicken, and won't interfere with any other medications he may need.

I know him well enough that he knows it’s wrong as he does it secretly when you aren’t looking as if you ever catch him indoors he will put his tail down and look sorry for himself.

This doesn't mean he knows it's wrong, it means he's worried about your reaction and screams anxiety to me.

It sounds like, at some point, someone has told him off for peeing indoors and that's why he does it out of sight, as nobody can tell him off if they can't see him doing it. That may have been the previous owner, a dog walker or even the breeder.

It was previously (as in, 10-20 years ago) seen as the "right thing to do" to rub a dogs' nose in its' business, or to tell it off for toileting indoors. Some dogs then become scared to toilet and will hide away and do it in private where they feel safe.

The vet did offer anxiety medication for events like firework night but they were not keen on long term after my description of him just doing it in the house sneakily and said all behavioural and a toilet training issue. I will go back and ask again

if he goes for a Normal big wee, he squats. All these small ones are leg cock wees

his bladder control is fine, he actually likes to pretend he’s gone when he hasn’t because its raining. He seems to do a big squat wee on a walk then he still has enough droplet wee to cock his leg pee on a few trees (after each one he will dig the ground aggressively) then as time goes on the walk he’s run out of wee but still cocks his leg on things.

the wee indoors is 99% of the time small droplets of wee I can tell is a leg cocked up by the angle of it

he did a big wee on DD bed even though the door was open to the garden that day, so that was a choice 🫤

Yeah I have never and would never do that or shout at him, I would just clean it up and take him outside to the garden - which he doesn’t like to do if it’s cold or wet. If it’s rained or cold I can guarantee he will go in the house

I'm afraid I have no advice but I can offer a handhold as my hound is exactly the same, the piddling, the barking in the garden, reactive to other dogs. I find the pet odour spray from Pets at Home is helpful at removing the scent and discourages him but eventually he sneaks back and does it again. Everything upright is fair game to him, particularly doorframes.

he did a big wee on DD bed even though the door was open to the garden that day, so that was a choice 🫤

But in your OP, you say that there was a crash and something knocked the baby gate over, and he ran upstairs and peed on the bed before you could catch him. That tells me the noise frightened him, he ran away and because he had a full bladder, he peed through fear.

Like I said, I'm not saying it was you - if anyone has treated him badly for peeing indoors at some point, it's likely a fear/stress response to run and do it out of sight.

Yeah I don’t know if they used to shout at him, I can see the guy in the house most likely did because he would wee in their bed a lot too.

We don’t shout at him but he does look sad if you catch him. Sometimes he has got excited and kind of challenges you - he runs around excited barking at you when you try to take him outside. Sometimes he even has to be physically carried to the garden in a floppy heap because he doesn’t want to get up in the morning to go for a wee. My garden is just grass and a path its not scary. If it’s sunny you can’t get him in again! 🤦🏻‍♀️

Yeah and the back door was open that day too, so he didn’t run AWAY from the crash noise, he ran over it when it happened up the stairs! He heard a crash, ran towards it, saw an opportunity, climbed over the gate and hoover (which is what fell down), ran up the stairs into DD room and did a wee on her bed.

Bless him, something has obviously frightened him at some point when he's done a wee and now he tries to hide - and it's gone on so long it's probably impossible for him to change.

I would just keep him in rooms with wipeable floors where possible, or have him on a lead/tether to restrict his movements if he needs to be somewhere carpeted.

Dog logic is nuts I do agree. He would have been scared by a crash noise. But he also saw it as a chance to get upstairs into the golden zone of amazing smells I think

I think you're applying human logic to his behaviour, though.

A frightened dog doesn't always run away - many frightened dogs display aggressive behaviours and will go towards what's scaring them to try and fight it off.

I honestly think this dog is just really anxious about toileting due to its' past experiences.

The only logic I applied to it was disbelief and frustration that he is so determined to get upstairs, especially into DD room that he will even climb over his arch nemeses, the hoover, to get up there. He does not like the hoover even when it’s switched off. He will cry/bark for me to move it if it’s in his way usually. DD had left it in a stupid place and it fell over.

We were all in the garden at the time, it was like all his hoover fears were forgotten when he was bolting over it like an Olympian thinking THE GATE IS DOWN!! He also had 4 other rooms to choose but poor DD, its always her room! I suppose it’s because I know this crazy little dog and he is the cutest, most loving but absolutely bonkers frustrating animal.

He is anxious and even though he’s settled with me, I think I will ask the vet about meds

The only logic I applied to it was disbelief and frustration that he is so determined to get upstairs, especially into DD room that he will even climb over his arch nemeses, the hoover, to get up there. He does not like the hoover even when it’s switched off. He will cry/bark for me to move it if it’s in his way usually. DD had left it in a stupid place and it fell over.

TBH that explains it even more - a loud noise plus his "nemesis" of the hoover - so he panicked and ran - he wouldn't have thought about going outside, his instinct would just have been to run upstairs to safety, and if he's peed in your DD's room before, that makes even more sense.

I wonder what their relationship is like, are they especially close?

When she was little he would bite her feet excited all the time and hump her.

DD thinks he smells and wouldn’t cuddle up with him, she’s kind to him and will play with him or walk him and feed him but she largely ignores him most of the time.

As in, she will do what I ask and do it with kindness and she will do what is necessary to take care of him but she wouldn’t go out of her way to spend time with him or be affectionate. She finds him annoying I think they didn’t bond well as he was aggressive towards her as she was small

I will just clear up, he did not live with me then. He’s 10 so they were both a lot younger and he was a puppy when this happened. She’s older now and he had stopped humping her otherwise I never would have agreed to him being here. He does still chase your feet sometimes but I put a stop to that with firm commands

What do you do when he wees in the right place?