Pugs not “classed as dogs” anymore

[Soubriquet]

Stupid headline, and stupid phrase but the idea is good.

Experts are saying that pugs should no longer be bred from and sold unless their noses are sorted to be longer than what is currently being sold.

Frankly all short nosed breeds should have the same thing. They are now so badly bred that some suffer hydrocephalus and nearly all of them struggle to breathe, especially in the summer.

The breed standard from 50 years ago, is vastly different from the standard today. It’s a shock to see really.

Link

This Arab colt was shocking. This isn't photoshopped. Such a beautiful breed in the 70s.
I think this can only be a good move.

Unfortunately lots of show dogs are overweight :(

@Minimalme I actually regret not breeding from one of my pugs because he is such a perfect example of how a pug should be and there are so few left.

That's what I'm considering with our entire male pug. He has long legs and is slim and fit. Everyone comments on how long his legs are for a pug. I just don't know how to go about finding a breeder who would want to breed for health. Then we could offer him as a stud. The breeder we got him from stopped breeding.

He also has the most amazing temperament, but then all pugs do

Agreed. One of my girls is good enough to show, and one of the reasons I don't is because I'd have to fatten her up. We do agility and run. She's lean and muscular. But she's just not the physique judges expect to see in the ring. I have a friend with a Crufts-qualified dog who also does agility, who dropped out of showing for just the same reason. Show dogs aren't fat, exactly, but they're definitely plumper than my girl.

(The other reason we don't show is that running and agility are much, much more fun.)

Can I ask a possibly very stupid question? - I've wondered about this since watching Crufts on telly as a kid.

When people talking about breeding dogs with a particular physical trait such as squashy face or sloping back, as mentioned in this thread, how does that actually work?? How do breeders make that happen in practice? Its always baffled me!

Came on to say the same. It won't stop people wanting them, and as long as they're in demand there will be a supply. Ceaser births won't be booked if they're illegal, so more of the brood bitches will suffer and die once it is forced underground. It will not solve the problem and will likely make a lot of things worse for the poor dogs.

Breeding results in many slight variations on physical form. e.g. If you have more than one child of the same sex, the chances are they are not exactly the same height, despite having the same parents. One is taller.

If that taller one is only 'allowed' to breed with a taller partner. They will probably produce taller children. If the tallest of those children are selected to breed, then the resulting offspring will be taller still.

And so on - gradually increasing the extreme with each generation...

The flat faces, snuffling, wheezing and snotters of pugs and the like is so unappealing. I like dogs but I’d not choose a pop-eyed pug to have as a pet. Poor things are useless and can’t breathe. I couldn’t take one of them up a mountain or on a run. Ugly too. Poor things have been made a mess of. But people love it?
So weird.

Artificial selection. Can be done 'naturally ' or with artifical insemination, pick a dog with a trait you want and a bitch with the same trait(in this case, the flatter face) more likely to get flatter faced pups until eventually... it isn't quite so simple as that but the basic idea.

Honestly French bulldogs especially seem to be such an utterly ruined breed now. The popularity they gained in recent years has created such an alarming amount of backyard breeders. I work with dogs and also foster for rescue, nearly every single frenchie that comes in rescue needs BOAS surgery to help them breathe. Or we get cleft pallete pups in that the ‘breeder’ doesn’t want to pay to help. When I get training requests in for frenchies it’s 90% of the time because they are aggressive in some way, either to people or other dogs. My trainer friend recently worked with one that bit someone so bad it broke their hand! A decade ago all the ones I knew were lovely now I can’t remember the last time I met a nice one.

What I don't understand if how a dog like a pug was ever bred from its wolf ancestors? It's one of the most ancient breeds of dog, so it came almost directly from the wolf line, but how?!? Who were wolves bred with in order to produce a pug for example?

Are there any dog breeds that are bred primarily for good health and temperament?

It seems like most breeds have some sort of issues, though some very much worse than others. Whilst we're not in the market for a dog, I'm not sure how I'd have the best chance of getting a healthy dog if I wanted one.

I shudder whenever I see a pug or a Frenchie. They have to be delivered by CS and the poor mothers have to go through this multiple times if they're owned by a breeder.

Dog breeding (and I suppose cat breeding too) is to me the moral equivalent of factory farming in agriculture. Animals are sentient beings. They're not there to be used without any regard for their welfare, purely to make money.

To deliberately create animals with physical characteristics which will shorten their lives and guarantee a poor quality of life is cruelty.

@Fridgeorflight in terms of temperament it's hard to beat a pug. They are the best family-friendly dogs anyone could ask for. If breeders were to breed them for health, they would be my choice of dog every time.

I couldn't tell you exactly, but I imagine it began when the miniaturising gene popped up in the canine gene pool, by which time dogs were quite a long way from the wolf. Some bright spark probably thought of rodent control as a first job for a small dog, but lap dogs existed by Roman times.

Once you have small dogs, you will start to have a variety of small dogs (you only have to think of the variety that existed in larger dogs in the ancient world: mastiffs, sighthounds and scenthounds can all be seen in ancient art). You then breed for the traits you want -coat type and colour, head shape and so on.

I'm not sure how ancient a breed the pug actually is, but the extreme form is very recent.

Greyhounds! The perfect dog, as long as you don't mind being kicked out of bed, stared and drooled over everytime you eat, never walking in the rain, and having to give endless tummy rubs as they roach upsidedown on your sofa.

Having said that, they are more prone to cancer, and I lost one aged 8 four months ago and I still can't stop thinking about her every day. I'm hoping my other two live till they are 14 like the other greyhounds I know.

That was supposed to be in response to @Fridgeorflight

Wrt CS as preferred means of delivery for Frenchies - all the Frenchies I have known were delivered this way.

Breeders do not risk their breeding bitches' future income by letting nature take its course. The puppies' heads are disproportionately large at birth.

@EdithStourton Apparently it originated in 400 BC but I read somewhere that it could be as far back as 700 BC. They were bread as lap dogs for Chinese Emperors and only the Chinese Royal family were allowed to own them

bred*

400BC is when they date back to. And they were originally bred to be bed warmers for Chinese royalty. Mine takes that aspect of her breeding very seriously 😂

They are a marmite dog it’s true but I doubt I will ever own another breed. Will stick to rescues from now on but I’m hopeful one day that healthier ones will start to be the norm.

And they aren’t all fat couch potatoes. Mine runs around like a maniac when she gets the chance but they should NEVER be walked when the temperature is above about 18. We walk about 6.30am in the summer and she has to sleep at night on a cooling mat with a fan on her. And that’s after extensive surgery.

@Blackbutler86, I have a suspicion that the reason you see so many poorly socialised and aggressive Frenchies is because the people who bought them saw them as cute, fashionable accessories and had no experience in training a puppy and no idea about the nature of the canine.

People project a lot of fantasies onto dogs.

There are breeders who think of those things first. Most people I know who breed working dogs want a dog who is even tempered and confident as well as healthy, so they consider temperament and hip test etc. They want working ability as well and all of this narrows their options, so they are less bothered about the show-winning end of things even if their breed doesn't have a huge show/work split.

The downside is that a lot of working-line dogs are bloody hard work if kept as pets, as they have working drives that need fulfillment.

I have a close friend who is a vet and she has told me this too.