My epileptic JRT bit DS

[Bordersanddragons]

DH was out with 4yo DS and ddog this afternoon. Ddog is 9 and has epilepsy. I NEVER leave them together or allow them to play together but DH refuses to accept ddog could pose a risk. Today, DS fell over ddog and ddog turned round and bit him on the temple. I wasn’t there but DS was very upset and said it hurt, although thank goodness no blood. If it was just a one-off I would of course say it was DS’s fault for startling him but ddog has always been a growly/territorial JRT and has got worse the more fits he has. He has snapped at both DH and me in our pre-parenting past for accidentally standing on him and made contact with DH’s ankle quite firmly. He snaps at other dogs on walks and has always growled if asked to move from where he’s sitting (he’s not allowed on furniture for this reason). I would have rehomed as soon as DS arrived but DH wouldn’t countenance it. We now have DS2 who is 5mo and frankly, I can’t face the risk. The hard thing is that because of age, medical and growling/snapping history it would have to be pts rather than rehoming. Ddog’s fits usually develop into status epilepticus for up to 25 minutes at a time but the vet won’t medicate as they only happen once every six months or so and there’s a chance the medication could cause aggression. I’m not here for easy answers. Tell me what I already know.

I’m so sorry to read this. Would you consider a second opinion from
a different vet? I say this only because I have an epileptic collie/lab cross who is 14 tomorrow and has been medicated since she was 2. She is on epiphen. The side effects for us have been slight sleepiness/slowness (she’s a sharp dog and you can tell her senses are dulled) but it keeps her fits to one per year with episodes much much milder than when she was unmedicated. She’s never bitten anyone and is excellent with DS but that is probably down to her breed/nature as much as anything. I appreciate that JRTs are different beasts!
I really hope you can find a solution. I feel for you.

@LabradorFiasco we have seen three vets over the course of the epilepsy due to moving house. All have said the same thing. I’ll give them a ring this week and ask again.

@LabradorFiasco he is a very full-on JRT - a bit of sedation would be quite welcome…

Ahh ok sorry, was just a thought. Honestly my heart goes out to you, this is such a tough situation. The epiphen really sedates our hound! It’s the first drug on this list: vetoracle.com/resources/client-factsheets/anti-epileptic-drugs-factsheet/

Another owner of an epileptic dog here. Are you sure the two things are connected? Our dog has never been agressive and is medicated. I've not heard that mediation causes aggression either, seems like you have nothing to lose now?

Are you sure the aggression is linked to the epilepsy?

Because the scenario here seems to be that DS hurt the dog and the dog retaliated by biting, just as he's done in the past when both you and DH have accidentally trodden on him or hurt him/frightened him.

It honestly sounds more behavioural to me but I'm no expert.

Like a PP I'm not totally convinced this is entirely down to the epilepsy. He just has a tendency to respond in kind when hurt - and Jack Russells can tend to be a bit like that.

I would say however that it was, at worst, an inhibited bite - if he'd wanted to inflict damage he could have, but chose not to. What's your DH's attitude after this incident?

I wouldn't leap immediately to PTS but if you are determined you won't keep him, in the absence of friends / family with a soft spot for him (would you be able to continue to pay epilepsy related vets bills?) I would avoid the big rescues (RSPCA/ Battersea prone to PTS; Dogs Trust won't take such a dog in) and opt for a specialist rescue for terriers or for dogs with epilepsy.

I don't have children and I do have experience with Jack Russells so I wouldn't rule out taking a somewhat grumpy dog like yours on, once I'd learned more about epilepsy (alas my current JRT needs to be an only dog). Honestly he sounds fairly mild for a JRT... I do love them but they're opinionated and will tend to opt for fight over flight!

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if any dog snapped at/bit a human that had just fallen over them unexpectedly (and possibly hurt them). It is a natural canine shock reaction.

So he's responding in the only way a dog can when stood on/squashed and fallen on?

I don't like JRTs at all, as I have met so many aggressive ones (including one belonging to our next door neighbours) but I don't think the dog did much wrong in the situations you describe. He gor hurt by your son falling on him and by you/DH standing on him. Not many dogs would tolerate being hurt and not respond!

got*

So you want to get rid because nobody can be bothered to look where they're going and not hurt the dog?

Poor bloody animal.

And even my absolute sweetheart of a dog who is the nicest dog in the world (not that I'm bias 😍) growls when he doesn't like something and wouldn't like someone falling/stepping on him.

Any dog will snap if they're frightened because you fall on them.

I agree with the above posters. I was bitten on the leg by a friends dog when I accidentally stepped on his foot (which he had a previous injury to.) it was the dogs knee jerk reaction and it was over before either of us could work out what had happened. I felt terrible that I had hurt the poor chap enough for him to respond in this manner. The bite has scarred my skin and it serves as a reminder that I should try to control my clumsiness in the future!

Crikey, it's a good job you didn't have our jrt then if you think yours is unpredictable. I don't know anything about canine epilepsy, but our much missed jack was sharp and opinionated. Like a lot of dogs, if he was, say, accidentally trodden on, his first instinct was to snap because he was frightened and hurt, not because he was dangerous. He once got tangled in some netting and we had to throw a blanket over his head to cut him free he was in such a snappy frenzy. Like many jacks he didn't care for dogs he didn't know and liked killing things. We loved him and miss him. However, it sounds to me that your dog isn't loved and you are seeking justification to get rid of him simply because he has retaliated when you hurt him. Poor dog.

Hi Op, I'm in the same boat with our beloved dog. I highly recommend talking to a behaviourist. I was dubious but we were desperate and it's the best money I've spent in a long time. We have changed our lives around our much loved dog, blamed ourselves, blamed a fit, blamed lockdown etc but having an outside expert eye has really helped. It's not his fault, it's not our fault... he's not well so life is becoming more and more scary for him. I have older children and I've reached the point where I worry about leaving the 13yo home with him when I pop out to pick the older one up.... that's not normal. He has only bitten someone once, due to a fit so it was excused. When you live with someone day in day out you don't see what's happening and well meaning friends/family often make light of it. I've had rescue dogs, cats and horses, never rehomed always worked through issues so don't take any decisions lightly but when it comes down to it your children (and other people) come first. Speak to an accredited expert, they will have seen many more dogs than we do and they can give advice and point you in the right direction.

I think its quite expected for the dog to snap when someone falls on him or he is trodden on. He's a small dog and even ds will be big to him so he will have been hurt and scared. If he wanted to do damage then he could but he snapped and stopped. Unless I'm missing something? Is he snapping seemingly out of the blue too or just during these incidents?
When one of my dc fall on me or hurt me by mistake I have pushed them off or shouted at them as it hurts and its a natural reaction. Same thing but the dog can't push or talk.
Even my assistance dog would have a hard time not reacting in these circumstances. Luckily its not happened to her.

Mmm, agree that a snap that didn't even draw blood is pretty understandable and in fact, shows a fair amount of restraint from your dog. It does sound like you are a bit scared of your dog however and, as a pack animal, if it senses weakness in you i't star more likely to be aggressive with you because it can. So possibly training (for both you AND the dog) is a good idea. A dog who is unloved/bored, will be more snappy and more aggressive too.

Having said that, the epilepsy thing is odd. Our jack russel is epileptic. She is on medication to prevent the seizures. Like yours, her fits are infrequent, but the lengthy duration of a fit is considered very dangerous so the medication is to prevent the fit in the first place. One of the very few signs that she might be going to have a fit within the next 24 hours or so is that she becomes a bit more aggressive and snappy.

She is on epiphen and libromide. Since being on the libromide she has had no fits.

Poor dog.
You need to go back to your vet and possibly rehome, I’m not sure you are able to look after the dog properly. You also sound afraid of the dog.
Being trodden on hurts, of course a dog may snap.

Your dog bit because he was hurt. That's normal dog behaviour. He didn't draw blood, so he inhibited his bite. If your dh can't supervise properly then no more walks with dog and child together.

You need a proper behaviourist and in the meantime dog and child need to be separated at all times.

If your dog is epileptic I can't understand why your vet will not give medication. I had an epileptic dog and rehoming him will stress him out and cause more fits.