Objective opinion on raw feeding

[Voerendaal]

I have fed my dog on raw food since I got her following advice from my sister who is very experienced dog owner and trainer and my dog was great on it - no issues at all. However a short while ago she became extremely ill with a bactaraemia causing severe diarrhoea and vomiting. She was so poorly I thought she was going to die and had to go to intensive care for 3 days. Fortunately she has recovered and back to normal. My question is all the vets who saw her blamed the raw diet for her illness. I am very very careful with her food. I keep things clean and it is defrosted in the fridge and used in 2 days. Do all vets disagree with raw feeding? There is no proof that her diet was the cause of her illness. She could have eaten something while she was out for a walk as she is off lead a lot.
Obviously I have been devastated and am worried so have changed her diet to fresh cooked meat after doing some research.
I would just like some impartial opinions on whether the raw diet could really have made her so ill or could it equally be something else.

No, our vets have always recommended it. We have standard poodles and it's great for them. Been doing it for about 10 years across different dogs.

We feed mainly raw but always make sure it’s frozen first to kill any bacteria, this is particularly important with chicken. Last year DDog was very poorly for a couple of days and vet said it was almost certainly some fresh chicken we’d given without pre freezing. No problem since then.

So sorry that you and your doggo went through that!

I feed my dog raw and have never had an issue, apart from a sensitivity to pure tripe (he gets an upset tummy, so we no longer use it).

He also gets it within 48hrs of coming out of the freezer. For instance, I'll take it out of the freezer some time on Monday, then he'll have half for breakfast on Tuesday, then half for breakfast on Weds. (He gets frozen or defrosted raw bones for dinner).

Just for the balance freezing does NOT kill all bacteria.

It is really hard to get an objective view on raw feeding and a decision has to be made for each individual.

There is a risk of bacteria from raw feeding and shedding to humans (how big a risk is not proven in rl situation) but benefit for some dogs may outweigh the risk.

However feeding always gets a very emotive response from people for and against raw feeding which also makes it harder to make an informed decision.

I’m sure freezing won’t kill all bacteria but then all bacteria isn’t an issue, let’s face it plenty of dogs eat poo and all sorts of unsavoury things. Our vet is supportive of raw food diets but says ensure it’s been frozen to reduce risk of issues because in her opinion fresh supermarket poultry is likely to cause problems that freezing will prevent.

Personally I think our dog does very well on raw but we’re not religious about it and like to mix it up about to stop boredom setting in and keep it simple should I forget to get stuff out to defrost.

I am neither but I am good friends with quite a few experienced and professional dog owner, trainers, behaviourists and nurses.. some feed raw and some don't. All of them say that you do what suits the dog full stop. There is a book by Coppinger and Coppinger which goes into the evolution of the domesticated dog, how it happened and why. Its not a book about dog nutrition but states that the current and strong evidence suggests that dogs were drawn to people by their midden heaps. Basically they used to scavenge for food waste, both vegetable and animal and human faeces. The food was both better quality and more available than foraging so the people dogs outcompeted the non people dogs......it kind of puts the whole raw/not raw is best thing into perspective? If we really wanted to give them what their ancestors ate, we should give them shit and rotten veg!

Thank you for your responses. I suppose the problem is I have been guilt tripped by the vets, one of whom said to me that the hospital had said it was the raw food which caused the bactaraemia. This pissed me off as none of them had said that to my face - they said that raw feeding was not recommended due to the risk of bacterial contamination. The raw food suited my dog but I am now scared to give her it again. I did my own research which basically showed that raw gave 97% of nutrients required. Also fresh cooked food about 94% so I went with that.

Hi,
OK here is my experience. My working GSD came from a breeder who raw fed.
I continued despite my best friend who is a vet pleading with me not to. She is a senior lecturer with a Masters in vet nutrition and 20 years clinical experience, also specialist so sees a lot of serious, urgent and last chance cases.
My pup got suddenly very sick, nearly died, had a massive infection located in joint which was diagnosed and bacterially cultured. On a drip for 5 days, joint wash twice a day, nearly had leg amputated.
My friend insisted on bacterial cultures from joint and this was traced to my raw food. I stopped immediately. She sees cases of this every month. Last month put down a full litter of Great Danes due to nutrition issues with bitch who had been raw fed.
She likens it to people deciding they will homemake their own covid vaccine- usually clueless owners. The specialist who treated the joint of the dog also came to same conclusion. Its a dangerous craze. Big issues with cross infection to humans also. I will await the pile on from 'its natural, have always fed my dogs raw etc.. to follow...

Why do you think your vets advice/opinion is not impartial? They’re recommending you don’t feed your dog raw meat because they’ve studied the scientific papers/systematic reviews that prove that there is a real risk of pathogens contaminating raw food and causing disease in animals and humans, and because they frequently deal with sick animals where the pathogen can be traced back to raw food, and they also see a lot of blockages caused by bones. Do you think they’re just advising against raw food as a sales tactic for the food they sell at the practice? I highly doubt this is the case-I’m sure they told you to feed any brand of safe food and have nothing to gain financially from recommending you don’t feed raw meat.
i don’t know why people are keen to try and mimic the diet of ancient wolves, when dogs are a totally different species and have evolved alongside humans eating cooked meat, starches and a largely omnivorous diet-and their digestive tract/enzymes reflects this diet (and this is the composition of pet foods that have been formulated by nutritionists to meet 100% of a dogs daily requirements).
wild animals mostly eat their food as soon as it has been killed, so there isn’t time for dangerous bacteria to colonise the surface. This is totally different to feeding raw meat that is not freshly killed, there is a lot of dangerous bacteria on this meat and it has been shown that domestic freezers aren’t cold enough to kill these bacteria-they can only be destroyed by cooking. What’s more, wild wolves/scavengers frequently die young and in pain from ingesting harmful bacteria or getting a bone stuck in their digestive tract-nature is cruel and a “natural diet” often results in painful premature deaths for wild animals. Why risk this for our pets when we have the ability to meet their nutritional needs through feeding them cooked food with no large bones?
Even home cooked diets for pets aren’t without issues-a recent study was published where researchers analysed a wide range of home cooked dog diets from the internet and found all of them to be nutritionally inadequate (even those from qualified nutritionists), whereas any commercial food labelled “complete” legally has to meet all of a dogs nutritional needs.
overall, I think that the supposed benefits of raw feeding such as small firm poos and shiny fur are not worth the risks of you or your dog becoming seriously unwell (and it’s really not uncommon). And I also think home cooked diets are not worth the risk of accidentally causing nutritional deficiencies. Many dogs do really well and live to a ripe old ages on nutritionally complete dog food that has been designed for them. I’m not sure why people have such a problem with commercial dog food-there is no evidence of it causing cancer or anything like that. Just my opinion/experience.
I know some people have found that their dogs have diarrhoea etc being fed commercial dog food and this has resolved on raw food, in which case I can understand people taking the risk if they’ve exhausted all other diet options. however if your dogs digestive system tolerates commercial dog food and it enjoys eating it and is a healthy weight then why risk them/you becoming unwell? Plus it’s a lot less hassle than feeding raw/cooking for your dog!

And yes, it’s possible that eating something on a walk caused your dogs illness and it wasn’t due to the raw food. However, bacteraemia is a known risk of raw feeding, so I’d agree with all the vets that it’s a likely cause. And even if that bout of illness was due to another cause, there is still the risk that a raw food diet could cause a similar illness in the future if you continued feeding it-hence the warning to it feed raw food to reduce the risk of your dog being poisoned again

*not feed

Yes it seems that people are very passionate about raw v cooked food. And not all vets are against raw. My dog had very loose stools on kibble and tinned food. So I tried raw and it suited her. It isn’t that I don’t believe vets but it appears a lot of evidence is anecdotal. Admittedly if a body believes that a food stuff is so bad it would be unethical to feed it to prove that it is so dangerous. Anyway I was just asking to see if there was an objective opinion and there isn’t !
I am currently trying the butternut box which seems to suit her. And my sister who has had working dogs for over 25 years and they have all been raw fed with no problems can have my left over frozen raw food - hey sorry - that is anecdotal again!

I feed raw, but if your vet has recommended against it then I’d listen. The diet has to suit the dog no matter what the ‘animal crazies’ (as I call them on here) will try and rant at you. My nan had a collie that was chronically sick from food issues, vomiting, bad bellies, ear infections, patchy fur etc. She went through every vet recommended diet going and it never improved. Until the dog got to about 4 and she took it camping somewhere really remote and forgot the dogs food, the only thing she could get hold of in the local shop was bakers complete. If you told people on here you fed your dog that they’d probably phone the rspca. As it was within 2 days he was having the first solid shits that he’d ever had in his life. Within a couple of weeks his fur had grown back, he’d stoped being sick and the infections cleared up

I raw fed from when I got my puppy as the breeders raw fed.
But she basically didn't like it! Tripe went through her (and the worst breath ever) , she turned her nose up at complete raw food like Paleo Ridge and similar..so not cheap. I'm not confident of meeting her nutritional needs with doing it myself...

So switched to a high grade kibble and cooked meats to keep it interesting. Perfect weight, decent poos...and a lot less hassle as I don't have to remember to defrost stuff (she does like a bit of frozen mince however!)