What dog would you recommend for us?

[GreeboIsMySpiritAnimal]

Family of four, DC 10 and 8. Both calm, gentle kids; used to dogs as they spend a lot of time with their grandparents' dog.

We live in a small house with a small garden in a small city centre, so need a small-medium dog (but not toy breed). We live very near three parks, and are a 10 minute drive from open countryside.

I am home most of the time, the dog would very rarely be left alone and never for more than a couple of hours. I am fit and very active, and happy to give a dog as much exercise as it needs.

We also have a confident, dog savvy cat who's unphased by visiting dogs.

We've tried rescues, but haven't found one with a suitable dog, so we've decided to register with a reputable breeder and wait for the right puppy - we aren't ready to get one till autumn, as we have a holiday booked, so have time.

We want a hardy dog without congenital health issues. We are not keen on dogs with squashy faces like pugs and bulldogs, (nothing personal, my mum has a Frenchie and she's a sweetheart, I just worry about the health issues) and DH isn't keen on "fluffy, fro-fro" dogs like bichon frise (sp???), although I wouldn't rule them out.

We're financially secure and can afford vets bills, insurance, training, etc.

Initial research has thrown up miniature schnauzers, Cairn terriers and Australian shepherds as strong contenders, does anyone have any experience of those breeds? Or have another suitable breed they'd recommend?

We'd be perfectly happy with a scruffy mutt, but they seem surprisingly hard to find these days! Thanks in advance.

I have a beagle, we love him very much but choosing that breed was (for us) a massive mistake.
He is an absolute sweetheart, friendly with other dogs and perfect with our kids but he simply cannot ever be let off lead, we have to be so careful with any external doors being opened and have paid a fortune to make the garden completely inescapable. If he gets a scent and is off lead or escaped, he will follow it until he reaches the end. He’ll come home but he’s been out on a scent for 36hours before and was so lucky to not have been killed on a road.

He was never food motivated, so training was v hard. He is a complete thief and will steal whatever he can reach and eat it - whether edible or not.

The shedding is surprisingly bad too and the tricolour means that whatever you’re wearing gets covered in hair!

He’s always been good about being left for short periods (separation anxiety is often an issue in the breed) but I work from home and he’s always happiest when the whole family is home. He loves us very much but has very little desire to please us - unlike say a lab. We are more like beloved housemates than a devoted dog!
He’s older now and has got easier as he is into his twilight years and we’ll will all be heartbroken when he passes, but I would never consider another beagle and strongly advise thinking twice!

Ps - our next dog is going to be a miniature poodle! Less shedding and more recall!

It's not really about how they look - personally I preferred scruffy-looking, hairy dogs (I love a beard and eyebrows on a dog!), more about getting a personality that will fit with the family. From reading other posts it sounds like beagles may not be right for us after all - but I guess there's no harm in meeting the breeder and her beagles and having an honest conversation about them.

Tbh everyone I know who has a dog has some kind of poodle cross, or the occasional French bulldog. I'm not averse to poodle crosses - I don't think I've ever met a dog I haven't liked - but I do wonder why people are paying pedigree prices for cross breeds.

I'm starting to lean towards hanging on for the right rescue dog.

If you like scruffy looking beardy dogs with brows, look no further than a Border Terrier or a Miniature Schnauzer. I've got a Border and a family member a schnozzer and they are both brilliant dogs, and brilliant with kids. Will walk for miles but equally happy playing ball or napping on the sofa or visiting the pub!

I like both of those @PieonaBarm - what's their prey drive like though? I don't want my cat to end up unhappy.

Schnozzer to be honest is too lazy to chase anything. My BT would chase a cat but he's never lived with one and is 13. I have loads of friends with BT's through a club and those brought up with cats from being puppies are absolutely fine with them and cuddle up to them. TBH I think a lot of it is how you train them.

Riley_roo888 on Twitter is a fine example of a cat/border friendship

I have a show/working cocker mix like a pp and he's awesome.

Funny, loving, amazing with the kids and a total goofball. Hasn't chewed anything in the house.

He needs 1.5/2rs a day exercise but that can be split up but mental work is key with them. Training, puzzles, agility, scent work.

But in terms of a loving family pet spaniels are fantastic.

I think a Jack RT or a JRT cross would suit you tbh, terriers are like big dogs in a smaller package, they need lots of socialisation and training but are very bright so pick things up quickly.

We have a JRT cross yorkie and he's a fab dog, sociable, loves people, will walk all day or happy with a couple of 20 min walks. He is lots of fun, fine with our cat and we can take him anywhere.

I think a staffy, fabulous with kids, not too big 14-16" if you get a proper breed standard staffy from a show breeder.

Plus you have owned one before so will know how loving and friendly they are

We have a beagle. She is lovely with the kids, she has a nice temperament. She can be left at home alone for a couple of hours, and she will happily snooze in her basket. She is very clever, and will learn new tricks quickly, especially if the right treat is being offered. She is so friendly, she would make a terrible guard dog. But she is a counter surfer, and her favourite thing to do is snoop around the house looking for food. And yes, she does shed quite a bit!

Border Terrier! I have two, voted best family dog, fantastic with children, real characters, hardy, non yappy, so loving, can walk for miles but also just do a short one.

It sounds like a mini schnauzer would be a lovely fit for your family.

I've had two and despite having really quite different personalities they have both been fabulous dogs. They're intelligent, a nice size, don't shed and great from an exercise perspective. Mine would walk all day if you wanted but equally no problem chilling on the sofa all day if you were feeling ill or something.

They are vocal though as a breed. One of mine barked at everything. No aggression, we used to say she felt the need to shout all her emotions and feelings to everyone at all times. My other one barks occasionally but much much less so it's a bit of a gamble on that! I didn't have my barky one from a puppy though which is partly why she was so bad for it, never got to train it out of her as a baby.

My main advice as someone who has had mannnnny dogs is to not underestimate the importance of a dog that matches your exercise capabilities. Some breeds need a lot of physical or mental stimulation (I'd say beagles and spaniels fall in this category for the most part) and if you can't meet those needs easily you can end up with a lovely dog turning into a very difficult dog.

Also as I see you've asked about prey drive... I've not come across a mini schnauzer with a problematic prey drive. They'll go after a squirrel etc if they see one but not enough for it to cause recall issues like sighthounds and scenthounds (IME). And clever enough to learn the pet cat is not for chasing even if they bark at strange ones on walks.

Greyhounds are softies who fold up small on sofas. Failed racers often end up in rescues and they've often failed because they have little or no prey drive. Our greyhound had zero interest in the cat, but unfortunately the cat was a bruiser who had a lot of interest in her and attacked her so often we had to rehome her. The day she left, the bloody cat wandered round the house yowling disconsolately for her.
We now have a lurcher who moved in after the cat eventually died (having lived a long and thuggish life). I'd recommend a lurcher all day long but ours hogs the sofa and chases anything with a pulse and furry, so you'd need to find a cat-friendly one. They do exist! Lurchers rock!

That does sound pretty perfect! I've been in touch with a breeder who's hoping to have a litter later in the year, and they've sent me a questionnaire to complete.

I can cope better with a dog that needs a lot of physical exercise than mental I think. I'm happy to walk/run with a dog for miles, or to just pootle about outside while they snuffle and truffle about, but I'd find a dog that constantly needed entertainment and had no "off switch" exhausting. After a decent walk I'd like to just snuggle up on the sofa please!

I would have said mini poodle or schnauzer, or a rescue if you're not fussed on breed or looks then getting a rescue puppy, especially if born or raised in a good foster home is a great thing to do. I wouldn't have a beagle, everyone i know who ever had one has said they're such hard work. Tibetan terriers are beautiful natured but they take a lot of grooming and can be incredibly stubborn. They're not really fussed about pleasing you unless they can see what is in it for them.

We have been trying rescues, I'd prefer a rescue. It's just rescue dogs that are both cat and child friendly are rarer than hen's teeth and tend to get snapped up very quickly.

I met two miniature schnauzer owners (separately) while out and about today, and stopped to ask them about their dogs. Both said they were brilliant dogs, great with kids - one said "you couldn't get a better first dog."

Our mini schnauzer is our first dog. She’s adorable.

Some time ago I happened upon what I presume was some kind of local miniature schnauzer club meetup in my local park. The noise was extraordinary! Not necessarily bad but they all made the same sort of excited screech, and 30 of them together! Wow.
During this event I also observed that this breed is very popular with gay men, who, as any fule kno, have excellent taste.

I know two schnauzers whose noise goes straight through, like chalk on a board. I also know another who isn't as bad.

I was in a similar position to you a couple of years ago, with an 8 and 10 year old, debating which breed would suit our family best and going round and round in circles. In the end we went for a miniature poodle (he’s cut short rather than a traditional poodle cut) and whilst getting a puppy was far harder than I imagined it would be (despite all the research) I’m really glad we chose that breed. He’s incredibly friendly, the kids adore him, easy to train, will walk for as short or long as you’ll give him, doesn’t shed at all and can be let off lead and won’t run off. That’s not to say there haven’t been challenges, we’ve had to work really hard to train him to be ok being left on his own and he will steal any food he finds lying around (he’s very food motivated), but overall he was definitely the right breed for us. Plus he’s gorgeous!

He is @2catsand2kids ! You need to update your name though!

We got a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel just this weekend. His name is Harry. He is the Goodest Boy.

Who I realise does not meet the brief I set out in my OP, but is nonetheless the perfect dog for us!