Golden retriever - snappy and reactive

[mamotamo]

We have a 13 month old Golden retriever who we have had since 9wks old. She is really lovely, affectionate, friendly and goofy - all the regular stuff you'd expect from a Golden retriever.

However, we have had a lot of issues with resource guarding since she was small and at around 5/6 months old we got a dog behaviourist and trainer come to the house to help with that. She still does resource guard but we actively manage situations so it's getting less frequent thankfully.

The breeder said that none of her own dogs have displayed any behavioural issues and no problems have been reported from any of the other puppies new owners.

Another issue we have (which could be linked to the resource guarding I guess) is that she can be quite reactive and the whole family (children are teenagers) have been bitten at this stage (once drawing blood). This definitely isn't play/puppy biting! Her whole demeanour changes - she moves fast and will lunge doing that horrible "attacking" sort of bark/growl and although most of the time she stops short of making contact with us, it's pretty unnerving!

I don't trust her at all and it makes me feel really sad because she CAN be absolutely fantastic and I see a lot of potential in her. However, I am always aware that she can turn with little "provocation"/warning and that we seem to have to "manage" her all the time.
We are strict with our teens about giving her space and we have told them what things seem to trigger her and signs to look out for which means they need to leave her be.

Getting her into the car, cutting her nails, washing her feet, sitting down next to her, opening cupboard doors next to her, getting too close to her, touching off her when she's sleeping, trying to get her off the couch/out of the flower beds, taking her harness off (and many more things) have caused this reaction - but, at times she's been absolutely fine with all the above and we have had NO issues doing these things.
There are loads of other examples which I can't think of right now (!) but basically, our experience of dog ownership isn't the same as what I see friends with their dogs experiencing.

I don't find it particularly relaxing even when she's relaxed and being affectionate because she gets narky so quickly, I'm always waiting for the bite/lunge/snarl to come!

We don't want to re-home her as we love her and most of the time she's great (albeit I'm always ready to back off if needed), however I really don't want to be having to ward off potential bites for the next 10-15yrs!

This isn't normal is it?
I know that no dog can ever be trusted 100% but I'm worn out worrying about this and trying to figure out whether we will always have to manage this behaviour or whether we can train her to be less reactive. I expected there to be a lot of work owning a dog but I really wasn't prepared for this kind of behaviour.

Has anyone experienced this and what was the outcome?

And most importantly, is it actually possible to de-sensitise a dog so that they are no longer reactive during normal day to day life??

My retriever sounds very similar however he is a boy and a bit older. He mouths and can be bitey however these are improving

he has been chemically castrated and that’s helped. See the vet make sure she isn’t in pain. check your insurance too as certain policies will pay for behaviourist and your vet can refer.(pet plan, bought by many and kennel club to name a few) ours didn’t. My boy is very anxious, he becomes very over aroused and then can’t regulate his behaviour so bounces up and mouthes etc his bites can hurt and he can look quite menacing but it’s pure fear/anxiety as there is no growling or snarling and he can now be redirected. Definitely mellowing. We use lots of techniques via behaviourist and trainer (they work together) (game based witch is fab as it’s enjoyable and he has fun - very positive too) def worth researching good behaviourist and speaking to your vet. It is behaviour you want to get nipped in the bud but it’s not a quick fix if you feel you can’t take that on then yes I would rehome as sad as it is. We had considered that too but decided we love him too much. I really hope you can make it work with her.

I don't think the breeder is necessarily at fault here. As I mentioned, I bred a litter. Both parents had stellar temperaments. The bitch that I kept was highly strung and hard work for about 3 yrs although always exceptionally loving towards our family and friends thank god. If she had been doing the things you describe, I just don't know what I would have done. It must be so hard.

I would really take your time finding the right behaviourist and thoroughly vet them. Ask for references.

Is your bitch neutered?

It's unusual in this breed but I have seen a few recently.
Ask your vet for a referral to a qualified veterinary behavioural specialist, your insurance might cover it.
This needs dealing with now , the longer you leave it the harder it will be to sort.
Think very carefully about rehoming , the behaviour isn't going to magically disappear in another home , it's not like you have small children winding her up .
Really sorry you are having these issues, it's meant to be enjoyable having a pet !

Maybe you should take her to the vets and try a course of painkillers. If the behaviour improves then investigate to find the source of the pain.
sometimes a chilled out older dog can really help younger dogs. They don’t have to figure out how to deal with a situation they just copy the old boy who knows what to do. Can be hard to find a suitable old boy but you might be able to join someone who owns one daily for walks.
Will she spend time in the garden happily without you and just the door open? Would a good puzzle thing keep her busy for a while? A ride out in the car if you’re collecting something? Different activities to keep the mind busy through the day.

Retrievers will resource guard if they have had things removed from them as a puppy. If you haven’t taught her to happily and voluntarily swop or drop, she will instinctively guard.
sounds like she needs lots of space to decompress. No walks for a week, don’t touch her if you don’t need to and try to let her make choices in her environment.

mamotamo, in all honesty I have thought about rehoming mine many times BUT, I have a daughter with special needs who said I had given her a best friend! The irony is that we got the dog so that my daughter & I could take her out to the park but it’s not worked out like that for numerous reasons but my daughter does a lot of googling about dog stuff so participates in that way and she enjoys the antics he gets up to( she doesn’t appreciate how stressful it is for the rest of us.
I have an appt at the vets on Monday to discuss if any benefit to be derived from castration- from what I have read virtually none and possibly could make matters worse, maybe medication. I think he will suggest seeing a behaviourist( our 2nd after 2 trainers). I just don’t want to give up on our dog till I am sure we can do no more.

I feel like this is pain based.
Goldens are usually stable and soft so this seems so extreme for the breed. Obviously its not unheard of and they are still just dogs at the end of the day.
My golden has a torn ligament in her leg, it will take 2 years to heal with treatment. We only found out because she was very occasionally doing this strange limp on walks. I had to get a second opinion from a specialist because my vet said nothing was wrong. Anyway what I'm trying to say is goldens do seem to mask pain well. Mine will let you touch the area etc without a single reaction so you wouldn't actually know without a scan and full check up.

As pp have said your dog will be easy to re home if that's what you decide. I have very young children but if I didn't id have taken your dog in a heartbeat. Also my dog has sorted a few over exuberant teens out before, like a pp said if you can find a older more stable dog to walk with it can have a positive effect.

Goldens are usually stable and soft so this seems so extreme for the breed.

While they are generally known for their good temperaments, they're also known as a breed that's prone to resource guarding, unfortunately.

@fairylightsandwaxmelts apparently they are but I have never met a single one who resource guards and I know many many goldens and am friends with 3 breeders. I'm not saying never but very rarely.

I've never met one that does either, but I've heard a fair few horror stories which leads me to believe it's probably not as rare as you'd first think.

I wonder (and this isn't a criticism of OP) if people assume that breeds like Goldens are automatically going to be chilled and biddable (as per their breed standard) so they don't necessarily put the foundations in to prevent resource guarding and other snappy behaviours.

@fairylightsandwaxmelts yes your possibly right. They are excitable dogs who still need firm boundaries despite most peoples assumptions.

OP I know theses not quite the same thing but Ill say this anyway! I used to ride competitively I was very ambitious, many years ago I purchased my dream horse he was only 1 (I couldn't afford an adult) and he ticked my every box as a future top competition horse. He was a little anxious when I viewed him but I put this down to the way he was being kept (very large busy competition yard with insufficient time for him/little handling).
I won't bore you with all of the details but I spent the next four years trying to sort him out I have extensive experience of the breed and had succeeded with anxious young horses a lot before. He was unpredictably aggressive (not funny when you weigh 500 kg) he would attack walkers dogs other horse farriers me and exceedingly also anxious. I tried everything, I had very well regarded trainers help and even loaned him to an exceedingly reputable home because I lost confidence in my own abilities nothing helped in fact the exceedingly reputable home achieved less than I did. It was becoming clear that there was a real problem my vet was also involved; yes in rare cases it could have been a brain tumour but even if we'd investigated the outcome would have been the same. The vets started to say the kindest thing was put him down which was very hard a beautiful fit healthy 5 yr old horse. The he got colic and the problem was solved and he was PTS putting him and me out of our collective misery.
Why am I telling you this? Its hard to admit that our animals are not what we hoped and dreamed, and to this day nearly 20 years later I still occasionally wondered if I could have resolved if Id done X or Y but ultimately he was making me miserable and he would not have been any happier with anyone else or been any better. My vet said there is no shame in admitting that you've tried everything and that for some reason this horse (or your dog) are just never going to be right and the doing the right thing for both of you.
Others on here will of course disagree I accept that but this is my point of view.

She isn't neutered yet, we wanted to wait until she was a bit older and had finished growing (hip dysplasia can be an issues for Goldies).

Typically, we only realised that resource guarding could be an issue in Goldies after we started having issues with her. If we'd had that knowledge beforehand and a few training techniques in our back pocket to use, just in case, then perhaps we could have nipped it in the bud? Or maybe we'd have always had to manage her anyway, no way of knowing for sure really. That's the concern now, can it be trained out of her or will we always have to manage it.

Will she spend time in the garden happily without you and just the door open?
She is happy to hang out in the garden by herself, but we're usually out there with her so she doesn't get up to too much mischief! She's becoming a bit clingy but I think that's an adolescent thing, equally she does like her own space. She lays down beside us a lot but doesn't tend to lie ON us, which I was surprised about at first. But they're all different I guess.

If you haven’t taught her to happily and voluntarily swop or drop, she will instinctively guard.
We have done drop/swap training with her but maybe we started too late or didn't do enough? She is brilliant in the house with that sort of thing when we're training/playing, but it all goes to the wayside when we're out walking (or in the house when it's not part of training/play). We use high value treats when out and about but the environment is so stimulating to her that the treats don't always seem to make much of a difference - and she is a real foodie, would eat herself into a coma if given the chance 😆
The comment on decompressing is interesting - we recognised after we brought her home that we all needed to back off from her and wait for her to come to us so we took a hands-off approach for a week which really helped. Maybe we need to do that again to help her re-set. But again, it's more "management" rather than smoothing off her rough edges and helping her be less whatever she is...?

I wonder (and this isn't a criticism of OP) if people assume that breeds like Goldens are automatically going to be chilled and biddable (as per their breed standard) so they don't necessarily put the foundations in to prevent resource guarding and other snappy behaviours.
No criticism taken, and perhaps you're right. We are first time dog owners and maybe her personality needed someone with more experience than us to spot some of these things earlier (and know how to deal with them) and to nip them in the bud. Obviously there's no guarantee that would have solved the issues but I do wonder sometimes.
We have tried to do our best by her.

fatherfurlong - that's really hard for you, guilt multiplied by a million! I hope you find a solution too as it's horrible having a lovely dog most of the time, but one that you don't trust as you know they might turn at random moments.

poodlefan - it sounds like there was nothing anyone could have done in that situation, sounds very extreme and upsetting (and scary!)

Reading all the replies I feel like I have to reiterate that our dog IS affectionate and lovely most of the time, we don't deal with these behaviours all day every day.

We can have a week where we get none of this stuff happening and I think we've turned a corner, and then we start having incidents again. They're not all air snaps or bites, some of them are growls which we do take notice of. But when we get growls for normal everyday things, along with the air snaps and the bites it does highlight her reactivity and her unpredictability.

If you saw her you'd think she was adorable, giddy, affectionate, loving etc - the same as any other GR her age.

We will contact the behaviourist to see what can be done to help and will also ask about the use of painkillers to the vet and see what she says.

Personally for me it’s whether on not you feel that your moving forward at all. I had some days when I thought we were beginning to turn a corner, tiny steps admittedly but perhaps a glimmer of hope here and there; everyone admitted that he was extraordinarily talented for the job I’d purchased him for. But in a flash for no apparent reason he would not only go back to square 1 but back to -10! Living and caring day after day for an unpredictably aggressive animal is very stressful and in the end there was no enjoyment in it, just constant stress and uncertainty. I don’t believe this is why we own animals.

That's the concern now, can it be trained out of her or will we always have to manage it.

At the end of the day - dogs are dogs and no matter how much training you put in, ALL dogs are capable of guarding and getting "nasty" over balls, food and what they perceive as high-value items.

IMO it's always a case of management - my own beagle is prone to guarding balls from other dogs, so I don't let him play with balls in public - he gets them at home or in the garden instead.

A few weeks ago, I took him to a friends house and he was playing with her dog. I'd said to her that he guards and not to throw a ball for him, but she forgot and did it anyway 😬as predicted, he guarded it and her dog responded in kind. Luckily there were no injuries and it was just noise, but I think because I always manage him so well (ie. no balls) she'd never seen that side of him (or her own dog tbh). The dogs are still buddies and play all the time, but when he visits her, all balls are hidden now😂

You can never train a dog to be 100% at anything so you always need to have a management plan in place just in case. I used to walk a dog who never guarded anything in his life until he became old and blind/deaf and easily startled, and he started to snap at the dogs he lived with just because he was no longer aware of his surroundings, bless him.

Definitely get help from a behaviourist to deal with this though :)

Lots of helpful replies, but please ignore any suggestion of dominance behaviour - no dog is ever trying to dominate their humans!

As others have said, resource guarding or fear aggression that has led to biting on multiple occasions is very serious. In fact, lots of rescue organisations would not rehome a dog with a history of biting. It’s possible that your dog tried to avoid biting but the signs were missed and now she has found herself in a position where she has to bite “without warning.”

I’d kindly suggest that you request an urgent referral by your vet to a veterinary behaviourist. These people are the real behaviour specialists, and are vets so are also able to prescribe medication (for pain, or for anxiety, or both) as appropriate. Insurance will hopefully cover it, as someone else said.

I hope you can get to the bottom of what is going on with your lovely girl, good luck! 💐🐾

Where are you based? There is a behaviourist called Jim Greenwood who is HUGE in the sighthound community but he works will dogs of all breeds (sighthounds are just his speciality). I believe he will travel or work over the phone/zoom etc if required but can't confirm that. Might be worth looking him up.

I have a bit of rescue work experience and am currently training up a very tricky GSD (but getting there)
In my experience and from talking to trainers I know this breed can be far more tricky than you imagine. The goofiness gets them a lot of free passes.
I would firstly get a vet check to rule out pain.
Do you think the stomach is sorted or ongoing?
I think she sounds like stimulation brings her to threshold quickly and she finds it hard to react appropriatrly.
If you cannot give her a treat while she is out she is over stimulated so either ease off the closeness to triggers significantly or bring out much less.
At home it sounds like she does not know her place. I would work on a routine where she learns her one bed is THE safe place. No couch time and no lounge time.
Im not a behavoiurist tho so see what others say.
One thing I work with on my GSD in public training is to 'mark' the seeing of something exciting and potentially triggering- still below threshold at this point- another dog etc- mark this with a treat rolled in front of him across the grass in opposite direction- so its like 'Yes, good boy, find it' then toss and he follows. Now he looks to me when he sees the trigger for the treat.
It will be hard work to find out how to undo the bigger issues but I wish you luck.

I just wanted to say that I understand how you're feeling. Went through similar with our lovely but very nervous cocker when he was around the same age. We saw a behaviourist who wasn't much help to be honest. However our boy is much much better than he was. I think he's just matured and seems to understand the world better now and we understand him. He's now 3 so don't give up hope, with time things might just settle (I'm not saying do nothing but just that maturity helped for us). It was an awful time, it's a huge disappointment when a much wanted family dog has these issues, it's incredibly stressful.

I think you should have a full vet check first then a behaviourist. Tbh going loopy around other dogs is often an anxiety thing rather than enjoyment.

I’d go back to the vet and check she isn’t in any pain, and look for a behaviourist to help actively manage the problem behaviours.
id also recommend a family or ‘for fun’ gun dog trainer for you and your teens to work with. Steadiness and self control exercises, giving items up, as well as finding a reason to work together may help her. They can also find it mentally tiring which may help.

I'd second the advice to see a gundog trainer. Self-control is a really good skill for any dog, as is being under control in the teeth of distractions (I'm currently teaching my younger dog not to chase rabbits...).

Some dogs just need a lot of structure and boundaries to feel safe and contented. That includes clear rules, like how they walk on lead, when they can go to their food bowl, that they sit before being let out of the door. They don't exactly welcome these rules, but once they are in the place, the dog settles down. A friend of mine had an utter arse of a terrier (bit people, peed in the house etc) but once he had a clear structure in his life, he improved a lot.