Recall

[fatherfurlong]

We have had our rescue dog nearly a year- he is now 18 months old.
We kept him indoors for the first week to help settle him in and just spent a lot of time in the garden with balls, Frisbees and food, calling him, stroking him etc. After a week he had lead walks for a few weeks & then went on a training line- & he is still on it! We have practised recall in the house calling from another room- that works 80% of the time. Calling him into or out of garden ditto. But in the park or dog enclosure it does not work at all!
The closest we have got to it was for a brief fortnight I was walking him with no lead on at all & he stayed close to me( within 5 feet ). When I called him to me he ignored me but after a few minutes would just plonk himself down & let me put his lead on- then that went out the window, he stopped plonking himself down & just kept moving out of reach - for 2 hours! Only with help of 2 other dog walkers did I get him back. He is now back on a long line. I get him to 'check in' with me during a walk but only to give him a treat so he knows I am worth coming back to & also so he knows he can come back without having his leaf on the & the fun ending, I carry chicken in my pocket, I call him to me in a sing song happy voice so high I am like Sweep on helium but he just ignores me & I always have to resort to treading on his line to get him back. I have met other people in the park who got their dogs 6 months after me & they stride along confidentially & always get their dogs back- what am I doing wrong? I am starting to think the dog has a neurological problem or that he must find me so lacklustre & boring he is hoping to escape.

What breed mix is he, do you know?

Some dogs will never have a reliable recall no matter how much work you put in, unfortunately - often it's down to breed (scent hounds in particular are bad), or past experiences which mean they run and bolt at the first sniff of freedom.

You're doing all the right things but I would try much higher value reward than chicken - cheese, hot dog sausages, cocktail sausages, sprats - you want something smelly that he never gets at any other time, only when you call his name and recall him.

Would he recall better to a toy or a squeaky ball? What about a whistle?

Some dogs can never be let off, he might be one of them.
‘And you need really high reward treats, something he’d die for.

Go back to the beginning and start again. Make sure he knows what you want of him, what word (s) do you use to call him back?
so if it’s “come”, make sure he’s on his way to you when you say it otherwise he thinks that “come” means stay where you are.
On a long lead, give a quick tug so he’s heading towards you then say come and then reward. Don’t shout if he takes a while or he will be less likely to return as he’ll think it a bad thing.
Some dogs are so hard to teach recall as their instinct to smell and chase and explore is so strong.

We are currently training our rescue dog for recall, it is a long slog.

One thing I leant from watching youtube videos is to use the recall command ONLY when you can then make sure they come back.

eg recall command is Come! (don't use their name) on a long lead, call name, to get their attention, then Come! and if they don't immediately come you give a gently tug on the lead until he comes. Don't keep repeating the Come! Then once they are at your feet, reward.
So - Come! pause, tug, reward.
So that every single time he hears the Come! he ends up at your feet.
Do this whenever you practice until you don't need to tug and then until he responds quickly. We are at the point where he responds when on a lead, but only 50% when off.
(so still on long line)

When you do practice letting him off, find an enclosed space, and several people. Everyone has high value treats, stand in a wide circle, and call him back and forth across the circle, loads of praise and rewards. Do 5 minutes and then back on lead.

When I walk ours on long line, I call Come! about every 5 minutes, so he if constantly practising the command.
If off lead and he doesn't come back, don;t continue to call Come! as that teaches him that he doesn't need to come back for it.
Also, when you call his name, if he turns towards you, get really excited so he starts running to you and then say Come! which reinforces what he is already doing.

But I realise that you may have done all that and he still has crap recall! Our old dog had good recall unless he could smell food. Not kids ice creams etc, more like rubbish bins, and then he would take off after the smell, we'd find him under bush eating crap. We never cured him of that, but as it didn't hurt anyone except his own stomach, we lived with it.

Technically most people train a recall using operant conditioning eg the dog knows if the do a behaviour there is a consequence eg food. Howeve if food is less reinforcing than the environment this will not work.

If you train a recall using classical conditioning the dog will learn a conditioned response to the recall cue. ie whiplash turn back to owner when they hear the recall cue.

Conditioned recall are dead easy to teach but take time and must only be used out and about when truely learnt.

Whistle stop explanation of introducing a classical conditioned recall (see what I did there !)

Start with the orientation game at home in a quiet location. Throw some food out and your dog will go to eat it as they turn back to you say "yes" (mark the behaviour you want) and then throw food out again. Your dog will chase afer the food but immediately turn back to you to see where the next bit of food is coming to you.

If you use the dogs food allowance then this will give you a load of opportunities to do this every day. Your dog will be learning the behaviour to whip lash back to youi.

When this is solid and quick and you can throw the food a long way out then you can start to do this in the garden and even on a long line out and about in distracting environments.

Next stage is to build up focus and eye contact on you when out on walks every time your dog checks in with your mark "yes" and reward.

Now decide on recall cue be it a whistle or a word. Say the cue at home with your dog next to you and reward. Again use the dogs daily food allowance for this. When they start to look at you when you say the cue you can add distance but still be doing this at home indoors.

Then play the orientation game and when the dog turns to you and comes back to you for the next bit of food say the recall cue instead of yes.

Building on this in different environments and over time will get a fab recall for many dogs.

It wouldn't have helped in your situation but this is a bug bear of mine that breeders do not classical condition recall from birth with puppies - it would be easy. If they just said a recall cue word when feeding the puppies recall would be sorted for life!

I also use classical conditioning, but use a whistle and follow the method in Pippa Mattinson’s Total Recall book.

I’ve used it for pups and adult rescues and it’s been successful for both.

I prefer a whistle, as it always sounds the same, doesn’t convey stress or emotion, is the same regardless of who is using it and carries over distance better than a voice cue. Mind you, in addition to poo bags, I have whistles in just about every pocket. (I attach them to lanyards, wear them for the duration of the walk, then make sure they go back in my pocket at the end.)

Another vote for Total Recall. We used this with DDog as a puppy. She's 9 now and her recall has always been fantastic.

Thanks for your replies, the Total Recall book was also suggested to me by another dog walker so sounds like a good investment. The dog is a mixed breed so not sure of his origins but looks a lot like a lab. As I said he stays close & will return for a treat but stretches out to snatch it there is no way I can get close enough to touch his harness never mind putting the lead on it. I have never ever shouted at him though boy, I've felt like it. Tried a whistle but may go back and try again as it is distinctive from other noises & no emotion attached to it. I just want to crack it as it is essential to keep him safe & I would hate him to be tethered for life.

Also worth working on harness touches separate from recall and lead on and game on type games.

Does he sit on command every time? When he comes back and he’s stretching out or hovering for the treat, tell him firmly to sit (but only if he’s got it nailed down)

that is so interesting about the different recall.

But doesn't it end up being the same thing?

So I trained our dog using treats, but now, when I call Come! he turns his head and runs to me. Not every time, it is early days still. (long line) but I only give a treat every 5 or 6th time. His response to the word is to turn to me. So isn't that the same, recall on the word, not because of the treat, but reached by different route?
Genuine question, I'm struggling to see the difference.

He isn;t actually very food orientated, in fact he wouldn't take any treats form us for about 2 weeks, and my ds has just been dog sitting over easter and he wasn't interested in treats from him. He'll only eat treats from someone he likes!