Am i doing the right thing?

[HotnSunnyRainbowRoses]

I’m not sure and would be interested to hear other views.
I have two dogs, I do not let either meet other dogs.
The older dog is uncomfortable around strange dogs she doesn’t know so this post isn’t about her, it’s about my younger one.

He’s a bit shy and is quick and easy to overstimulate/frustrate.
8 months old and entire.
I have been treating him for walking past and ignoring other dogs on walks for about a month now and he is doing fairly well.
I’ve been treating him sat outside busy places like cafes, schools etc when people/dogs pass since he was a puppy so he excels at this.

Given the opportunity (he has managed to get away from me on lead a few times) he is wild around other dogs.
Like completely crackers.
Barking, running around them in wide circles, running right up to their faces and away and repeat, makes snarl type faces at them...

I’m 99% sure it’s not malicious and is overexcitement and frustration.
I say that because he exhibits the exact same behaviour towards me and DH and our older dog nearly every day and has done since he was 8 weeks old.
Usually when he’s overtired or in the evening in the lead up to dinner where he’s excited.

When he was small my older dog used to respond to him by playing with him, now in the last month or so she completely and utterly ignores him when he behaves like this and will tell him off after a while if he doesn’t stop.

Fast forward to today, sat on a bench at school and a (lovely) calm, placid little cavalier was sat next to us.
All three dogs were getting biscuits and everything was fine aside from one point where my male decided to try and run forward at the cavalier and barked at her once, then went back to being good and eating biscuits and basically, I’m wondering if I’m doing the right thing by rewarding him for ignoring other dogs?
Like should I actually be allowing him to properly ‘meet and greet’?

There’s loads of dogs on the school run, I work hard to reward my dogs for ignoring them but I’m just questioning if I’m the right really.
Everyone else seems to let the dogs meet?

My older one is nervous around strange dogs, I have had loads of dogs go for her and as a result she can be reactive herself.
She’s fine as long as other dogs ignore her, she can walk with them no problem but will warn them off if they dare try and interact with her but my male, I worry that I might possibly be letting my experiences with my older one (she’s a very starey collie so she unsettles some dogs) cloud my judgement with him?
Like maybe if I let him meet and greet he’d stop being so crazy?

In general it's fine to teach dogs to ignore strange dogs, but do you know any dogs aside from your own that your younger one could.play with? That we he can let of steam and learn about canine interactions in a controlled way.

There's nothing wrong with teaching your dog to ignore others on eg. pavements, the school run etc.

However, I have to admit I don't understand why you've never allowed him to meet any other dogs - is it just because you had a bad experiences with your older dog?

Yes, it's important that your dog isn't reactive, but at the same time, play is an important part of socialisation and it's natural for dogs to want to meet other dogs and greet them etc.

Could you arrange some socialisation for him via a dog walker or daycare if you're not confident doing it yourself?

but do you know any dogs aside from your own that your younger one could.play with? That we he can let of steam and learn about canine interactions in a controlled way
Not really.
He meets my in-laws dogs but they are old ladies (10 and 11), we walk with my neighbours dog sometimes too but he’s an extremely placid enormous dog who completely ignores my boy’s OTT behaviour and again, is quite old. I don’t know how old exactly. Old enough to be greying.
I had planned to introduce him to my friends young cocker as she is also crackers but said cocker is extremely nervous and although she loves other dogs she initially approaches extremely submissively.
I’m worried my dogs would terrify her tbh.

is it just because you had a bad experiences with your older dog?
Yes, it’s made me incredibly nervous.
Compounded by the fact my younger dog is a tiny toy breed so he’s vulnerable should a dog take a dislike to him

Just a question how are you going to let him "properly meet and greet"?

Just a question how are you going to let him "properly meet and greet"?
Good question.
I’m not sure he knows how to tbh.
And I have no idea how to teach him.
He’ll just bark at them and run at them and around them

If you never let your dog meet other dogs, how do you expect him to learn to socialise with other dogs?

So what do I know about dogs but...

Dogs are definitely social animals. At least, most want other doggie friends. They stop & sniff to find out about all the other creatures, especially dogs, in the area. This is hard-wired.

So you're fighting against dog nature, I suspect, to try to have no meetings.

if he had practise meeting other dogs would he not learn to understand other dogs, and be safer around them? What if (heaven forbid) he had to leave your home -- wouldn't it be better if he was well socialised to understand other dogs & had good chance to live with them?

There are ways you can manage greetings so that he doesn't run crazy but still gets to greet.

There's a Youtube video for everything...

Do you know anyone with a sociable dog who may be able to help you? If not could you put a post up on Facebook or something?

You could also use a long training line
So you could grab ahold of him if necessary or even keep hold of him initially until you are sure of his reaction.

ps: I've been thinking about how households like mine often have 2-3 cats (we do) but cats are called 'solitary'. Meanwhile we are hosting one dog she would definitely like some doggie friends, few homes have multiple dogs. Not sure we humans have it right!!

The one I'm hosting makes friends more easily with some dogs than others. Elderly labradors are her best bet. Over-confident (anthing) spaniels, beagles or Jack Russells about the worst.

if you never let your dog meet other dogs, how do you expect him to learn to socialise with other dogs?
He lives with another dog to be fair.
And sees my in-laws and neighbours dog sometimes but they are all senior dogs.

i walk a terrier called Mabel (who lives peacefully with another (tiny very elderly) terrier). Their owner has hidden away all pandemic.

Mabel is a horror show with other dogs. She acts friendly at first but then snaps when other dog gets close. Not every time, just especially at dogs about her size or smaller. And she barks aggressively. She just so wants to be the boss.

If we're unlucky that a loose dog comes running up, Mabel is all growls and teeth bared. This is all a huge pain when we see so many dogs happy to greet others & be sociable. I wish I could work with her to get her to mellow out & stop over-reacting. For now, she stays at arms length while I greet any strange dogs to try to show her how to make friends.

There are plenty of dogs in this world that don’t run around playing with strangers
I don’t allow mine too because they are extremely big and boisterous and another dog would probably get flattened. They do however play together.
I focused more on teaching focus on me, training alongside other dogs but not necessarily making them anything more than background noise.
I hate on lead greetings as they are so unnatural so never allow this.

Do you know anyone with another similar dog you can walk with? Perhaps ask on local dog groups on Facebook?
Do you go to any training classes where he can see other dogs?

I only let my dogs ‘meet’ and play with other known dogs. Yes they are social animals, but they get those needs met by us and their family, the others are a bonus- but they don’t need to go saying hello to everyother dog in the park.
Socialisation is about getting them out and understanding new situations, not being best mates with any and every dog you come across.
If I had a pound every time I have see dogs give another a telling off and the owner say ‘they’ve never done that before’ (yeah right!) or it’s fine they’re just putting them in their place I’d be a millionaire.
Sometimes older dogs are telling pups off, but I think most of the dog owner have no idea about canine body language or how to read interactions. It’s people just happy to use your friendly pup as an outlet for their horrible dog.
Your dog will be fine- it’s just normal juvenile exuberance.

@HotnSunnyRainbowRoses

if you never let your dog meet other dogs, how do you expect him to learn to socialise with other dogs? He lives with another dog to be fair. And sees my in-laws and neighbours dog sometimes but they are all senior dogs.

The thing is, the dog he lives with is reactive (by your own admission) so is she really teaching him the right things?

As a dog walker, I walk lots of dogs who are excellent with the dogs they live with, but, due to lack of experience and socialisation, they're awful with dogs out of that family unit (unless introduced slowly, properly and over a long period of time).

I don't think it's fair to stop him interacting with all other dogs apart from one that you admit is reactive. In fact, it's more unfair than anything else. He needs to experience something different.

Your dog needs to be socialised.

I take mine on training and socialising walks organised by my dog training school. We've found them invaluable in helping the frustrated greeter tendencies and also just to help him learn how to play nicely. At 8 months old there should be teenage dog classes out there, definitely do some

You also get the chance to offload the "oh my word, this teenage pup is driving me crazy" stories!

The thing is, the dog he lives with is reactive (by your own admission) so is she really teaching him the right things?
She’s only reactive if they try and interact with her.
I can only recall one incident where she’s ever growled at another dog with him and that was a dog on one of those bloody flexis that she was walking away from when it ran after her and jumped on top of her.
She (and my male) were sat less than 2 feet away today from the cavalier today, she can literally sit right next to a strange dog with no reaction whatsoever as long as the other dog isn’t trying to sniff her.
She isn’t one of those reactive dogs that lunges and barks or anything.
She will completely ignore other dogs and warn them off (she’s never bitten) if they try and interact.

You also get the chance to offload the "oh my word, this teenage pup is driving me crazy" stories!

Ah no, I love him 😍
He’s a really good boy overall.

I think it depends on what your goals are and especially on what would be best for your puppy. My last dog was essentially indifferent to other dogs even when he was quite young (he was a rescue but we had him from a very young age). He would tolerate them but never had much interest in playing or socialising. He really only wanted to interact with people. He wasn't aggressive in the slightest and could walk past other dogs without batting an eye.

My current pup (now 9 months old) is a social butterfly. He loves playing with other dogs. That may change as he matures but for now it gives him great pleasure to play with his doggy pals. So he has some selected friends that he can interact with. He does well with not greeting unknown dogs unless he is allowed. Prior to finding some suitable puppy friends, his dog manners weren't great TBH. He was far too boisterous and overly friendly. That has calmed down, perhaps due to his age and perhaps due to learning from other dogs how to interact.

I guess what I'm saying is that dogs are individuals with their own individual temperaments. For my pup at this point in his life, avoiding dogs altogether would make him quite unhappy. That doesn't mean greeting every dog we meet, of course. But successful encounters with chosen pups have been only positive for him.