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The doghouse

If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

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Original poster

So upset and shocked

46 replies

procrastinationstations · 15/03/2022 18:34

Ddog 8, dpup 11 months.

Ddog dislikes pup but never angry with her. Dpup isn't scared of ddog as such but knows she's in charge.

Dpup is the friendliest, happiest, sweetest little thing I've ever met, loves all dogs and humans.

Dpup LOVES her food, she's been good though lately and has stopped nicking Ddog's food (isn't particularly into food and doesn't seem to care at all when she does). Dpup is a quick learner and eager to please.

Just given them both tea, a biscuit flew out of pups bowl so she went off to retrieve, older dog sniffed at pups bowl and nicked a biscuit.

Pup attacked her, I mean attacked. Ddog backed away and pup still went ballistic, biting at her neck. It was awful - absolutely awful - I just can't believe it. Ddog was shocked - pup looked non-concerned and went back to food. It was an attack not a quick warning.

I'm so upset and shocked and don't know what to do. DH saw the whole thing too and feels the same as me.

I can't believe pup was capable of that and I don't know what I should do to help this to not happen again.

OP posts:

AlternativePerspective · 15/03/2022 19:40

I wouldn’t overthink it. She’s done what is natural and has defended her dinner from the other dog.

I wouldn’t even keep them apart for any reason, but I would feed them separately in future.

As hard as it is to watch, she hasn’t actually done anything wrong, and the older dog got what was coming to it if it stole her food. This is natural behaviour.

tattychicken · 15/03/2022 19:50

5 seconds is not very long, though I'm sure it felt like forever! Was any actual damage done? I know spats like that can sound much worse than they are, lots of snarling and yelping, saliva flying and teeth snapping. If she didn't actually draw blood, it may well be her asserting herself as she is getting older, and isn't that unusual.
But yes, feeding separately is sensible, as is giving them treats or bones etc.

brainhurts · 15/03/2022 20:01

Feed separately, have to feed my three separate or they would fight . Live in perfect harmony apart from food time .
Maybe with pup put small amount in her bowl then add extra, only so she knows you are allowed near her food and can give / take it away

Swifey40 · 15/03/2022 20:12

Can you take the puppy's food away from her half way through her eating it? Does she guard it against you? I once looked after a dog (terrier) and he was absolutely awful at this. I was a dog sitter and had two terriers of my own. The owners hadn't disclosed this to me and I nearly got badly bitten. I was horrified as they have two children, who had to be in another room when the dog was being fed. The owners just accepted it as normal. Anyway by the time they came back from holiday the dog was cured. You have to be the boss. I took away his food after he had had some and he went for me, I wore gardening gloves so it wouldn't hurt. As soon as he went for me I shouted, very low and loud, 'STOP' He looked very surprised! He was allowed his food back when he sat down. And, repeat repeat repeat. He got the hang of it pretty quickly and he was a 6 year old dog. Do not let this go, it's very important, s/he could bite anyone at anytime if they have food, or accidentally disturb his bowl.

Happenchance · 15/03/2022 20:15

Taking her food away whilst eating is terrible advice and could make her guard food from people. Just leave her in peace whilst she eats.

Aquamarine1029 · 15/03/2022 20:18

I can only imagine the shock you had, but don't fret too much. This really is quite normal behaviour, especially at her age. Get some advice from a behaviourist and I'm sure all will be well.

Kizty · 15/03/2022 20:39

I really don’t know if this is helpful or not. But do you have a baby gate to separate her in to one area of the house? We find this helps a lot.

Brownlongearedbat · 15/03/2022 20:44

@swifey40 why on earth would you keep removing (or want to keep removing) a dogs food while it is eating? Imagine you being starving hungry and sitting down to your favourite meal, only for someone to keep removing your plate? Wouldn't you be pretty cross? I don't understand why the owners children were ar risk either, unless they were disturbing an eating dog all the time. I wouldn't be happy with someone 'training' my dog without my permission whatever the perceived problem.

Cerealnamechangerer · 15/03/2022 21:05

Swife Taking a dogs food off it while it's eating and then getting in it's face and saying no to it in a threatening manner is absolutely bonkers and terrible advice. No wonder that dog bit you if that's what you think training is.

That owner was right to shut the dog away from children while it was eating. Put a door or baby gate between them op whenever there's food, treats or chews around. Don't give them the opportunity to do this again. Check the Facebook group recommended above, they're all about gentle and positive training. Not punishment.

Dobbysgotthesocks · 15/03/2022 21:14

Separate at feed times for now. Don't over think it. She's becoming a teenager. Her hormones will be all over the place. If she's not had one already she will be heading towards her first season. She won't understand what's going on and both dogs will be confused.

My two had a couple of spats when mine younger bitch was about the same age. It happened quickly and was all noise. It upset us all but we got through it. It's is very very common with dogs this age. A year on and mine are the best of friends and haven't had another incident.

WetRainbowRoses · 15/03/2022 21:14

and has stopped nicking Ddog's food (isn't particularly into food and doesn't seem to care at all when she does)
I think this was your first mistake tbh.
Approaching others food needs to be absolutely out of bounds imo.
I think any incidents of food stealing allowed to happen set a dangerous precedent, dogs can be so possessive over food.

Mine are fed in the same room close together, they are not allowed to so much as look at the other dog eating.
They get their bowls, they eat, they leave.

just takes stuff back if taken
It shouldn’t be getting taken in the first place.

I remember being told when my youngest was tiny to let them get on with it, basically do whatever they wanted re toys and stuff and it’ll sort itself out.
I thought at the time that didn’t seem right.
The result?
My pup being a pup stole every single toy my older dog had and my older dog then thought that behaviour must be okay and started stealing toys off the pup.

Pup started coming into maturity and started growling quite aggressively whenever my older dog approached him and he had a toy.

I stopped allowing the older dog to take his toy and vice verse what do you know, he miraculously stopped growling at her near his toys...

Punishment?
I definitely 100% tell my dogs off. But if the telling off doesn’t happen at the exact time the misbehaviour is occurring they aren’t going to understand.
While from a human perspective I get the thinking behind keeping the dog outside, I doubt the dog will understand.

Knowivedonewrong · 15/03/2022 21:20

Jesus, don't take food away while the dog is eating.
What stupid advice that is.
Just feed your dogs separately in future.

Honeyroar · 15/03/2022 22:20

The pup is not a baby anymore. She’s standing up for herself and not letting the older dog near her precious food. You now know she’s going to be like this, so feed them well apart.

One of mine can be like this occasionally. He’s a really sweet, goofy boy 99% of the time, he was an assistance dog, but has very occasionally really growled if he’s thought someone was going to touch his food. I certainly wouldn’t get into domineering and threatening him to remove food. He just gets left in peace with his food and there’s no problem.

Original poster

procrastinationstations · 16/03/2022 07:55

Thank you for all the replies and the advice (and the kind words).

Having slept on it, the thing that's upset me the most is the absolutely switch in behaviour that we had NO hint of before ever after 9 months of having her and that it was at my poor ddog. It was like watching one of your kids attack another.....

Pup is so puppy-like and doesn't appear to be growing up in any other way / this was a bolt out of the blue - but I've woken up to the fact she's maturing. She had her first season at 6 months and is being spayed in a few weeks.

I will feed them separately, supervise treats and be more firm with the toy stealing.....

Thanks again.

OP posts:

findingsomeone · 16/03/2022 08:33

This happened with my two retrievers in 2020, one was 5 one was 12 and it was pretty ferocious. They were always fed outside far apart and respected each other's space, but from then on we fed one inside and the other outside.

Don't let one nick a biscuit or a treat here or there, feed chews etc separately. If giving a small treat feed one to each by hand fat apart type of thing.

It sounds like Dpup has gotten a bit big for their boots and cocky, thinking the can take Ddog on. Pretty shitty really, and I'd be inclined to make sure Ddog's space etc is respected and not shat on by Dpup.

Resource guarding is quite a natural behaviour I wouldn't be bothered enough to get a behaviourist unless you feel the education and training would be beneficial for you as an owner. When mine had the squabble I accepted it was my fault for enabling them to come together like that even though they had historically been fine. That is the one and only time they ever had a cross word, and my eldest died in January aged 13 1/2.

findingsomeone · 16/03/2022 08:38

Ignore the advice about removing food during eating! That's dominance theory, very outdated and can be dangerous. If a dog is eating what they've got is 'lost' you don't go after it and risk losing your hand. Take on what you can ie. If you go to give a treat and they go to snap say 'no! Gently...' and encourage calmness around food.

My little dog (not one of the retrievers) is a snapper. She's a rescue and I got her aged 7 1/2. She is a work in progress, and I generally throw her treat into the floor near her for the safety of my fingers. She has zero impulse control... but I would never drag food out of her mouth for snapping once she's got it or whatever, just reinforce as she goes to take it to be gentle.

Happenchance · 16/03/2022 09:00

@procrastinationstations

Thank you for all the replies and the advice (and the kind words).

I will feed them separately, supervise treats and be more firm with the toy stealing.....

Thanks again.

How are you going to get firm over toy stealing? I wouldn't remove toys from either of your dog's mouths because that could cause them to guard toys from you.

Toy "stealing" between dogs can be a way for one dog to initiate play with the other, so isn't necessarily a bad thing depending on both dogs reaction to it. I think you need to get away from the idea that your dog is in charge of the pup. Dominance theory has been disproved: apdt.com/resource-center/dominance-and-dog-training/

"One of the biggest misconceptions we find ourselves faced with is the definition of “dominance.” Dogs are often described as being “dominant” which is an incorrect usage of the term. Dominance is not a personality trait. Dominance is “primarily a descriptive term for relationships between pairs of individuals.” and moreover, “the use of the expression ‘dominant dog’ is meaningless, since “dominance” can apply only to a relationship between individuals. (Bradshaw et al., 2009) Dominance comes into play in a relationship between members of the same species when one individual wants to have the first pick of available resources such as food, beds, toys, bones, etc. Even between dogs, however, it is not achieved through force or coercion but through one member of the relationship deferring to the other peacefully. In many households the status of one dog over another is fluid; in other words, one dog may be the first to take his pick of toys, but will defer to the other dog when it comes to choice of resting places. Dogs that use aggression to “get what they want” are not displaying dominance, but rather anxiety-based behaviors, which will only increase if they are faced with verbal and/or physical threats from their human owners."

Roselilly36 · 16/03/2022 09:01

@Hugasauras

Feed separately from now on. Food is a high-value resource and a frequent reason for guarding behaviour.

My immediate thought too. It could happen again and next time could be worse.

rubywho12 · 16/03/2022 09:08

I have a few dogs and one of mine is the same around food, she cannot eat around the other dogs or be around them and if their food bowl is down as she does the same.
We feed her in the utility and the others in the kitchen and she waits in there until we let her out (once all the other dogs have finished and food bowls are picked up)
She is lovely otherwise ands gets along with the other dogs in every other way.

WetRainbowRoses · 16/03/2022 09:11

How are you going to get firm over toy stealing? I wouldn't remove toys from either of your dog's mouths because that could cause them to guard toys from you
You don’t need to remove anything from the dogs mouth.

You see that one dog is chewing/playing with a toy and you see the other dog going to move towards it, you body block so they can’t approach or call/distract the other dog away with a different toy or a treat.

TeloMere · 16/03/2022 17:59

I thought it was normal behaviour. My 2 dogs get on well, share toys etc but there would definitely be a fight if they weren't kept apart when eating.

One gets fed outside, the other in utility room. I didn't shut the door properly on one occasion and dog bolted his food down and rushed into the garden to steal other dogs food and all hell broke loose.
Sounded awful but neither was injured thank goodness.

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