Page 2 | Rescue dog issues

dogissues99 · 2022-02-27T19:35:08+00:00

We are having issues with our rescue dog and constant arguing about it! I need some other opinions. Background- family with 3 dc age teen to 6. We already have rescue dog who is lovely, has his annoying habits but in the home and with the kids he is a perfect family pet. We wanted a friend for him and a 2nd dog for us but didn't want to buy an overpriced pup and had no joy rescuing in this country because we work (from home) and have kids so we got a pup from abroad last May ( this isn't a thread to slate abroad rescues please! ) he arrived later than we hoped so instead of a 4 month old we got a 7 month old bundle of nerves. We couldn't get close to touch him for the first 6 months. He now is affectionate and loves to be stroked and will go out for walks but only a set local route that he is used to. We can't get him in the car yet so he hasn't seen a vet. He is nervous of other dogs, new people and most things but is slowly improving. The main issue we have is in the home. He is nervous of the children, he gets jealous if the children get close to my husband to even sometimes to each other; when they come in a room he sometimes reacts too, though this is improving. He displays this by growling and jumping up at them or barking and lunging at them he has gone to bite them on occasion but the bites don't have any force though they are scary and I worry that one day it will be a bad bite. I am ready (have been ready for a while ) to admit defeat on this one, I'm scared for my kids and don't think we are a good match for him and don't think we are able to fulfil our duty of care to him. He only really likes my husband and seems like a one man dog not a family dog. We aren't getting anywhere with training as we both work full time, my husband said he would be in charge of training but nothing happens days and weeks pass with no training happening. We have talked to trainers and behaviourist and they give us advice but we don't do anything with it!! I'm at my wits end with it. I want to commit to this dog but don't know how and feel that my husbands attitude of; he's fine he just needs more time he is dangerous and really really makes me angry. If the kids get scared he tells them off and defends the dog. I just want to rewind time and not get this dog!! Im not naive I know rescue dogs need training I've had several and worked with them too, I was prepared for training and classes etc but I don't know how to work with this one, I'm nervous of him, and he doesn't respond to me at all. I just feel angry that he's scaring my children, causing arguments and feels like a dark shadow in our home, we don't go for nice dog walks anymore because he won't walk anywhere other than this set route round the village, we can't go out for the day as a family as no one else can walk him, we can't have a dog walker because he won't go in a car or be with other dogs, we can't plan a holiday for the same reasons or have our youngests friends round without having to shut him in a bedroom. It's making me miserable! I don't really know what I'm asking, mainly what would you do??

Original poster

dogissues99 · 28/02/2022 00:16

@ThisisMax

What training were you advised? You should have a clear idea of what to work on next, after that etc and these should be in play daily. Im not sure getting advice and not using is going to solve your problem.

We were advised to teach him tricks to build confidence, and to use a likimat in the home, then near the car then in the car. We were also told to give him treats to reward 'normal' behaviour. He has improved a huge amount, we couldn't get near to him for months and now he loves attention and goes for short walks.

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Original poster

dogissues99 · 28/02/2022 00:18

@tabulahrasa

“We can commit but we are overwhelmed with how to do it. We read so much and make training plans but they don't seem to relate to real life and our dog.”

When you say you’ve had advice from trainers and behaviourist?....have you not had a proper assessment and them given you a training plan?

And I’d second the - you want someone who specialises in foreign rescues, the first trainer I approached is very well regarded, qualified and is i suspect usually very good, but I only had one session with her because she was trying to give me more usual training stuff to do, which was all stuff I’d already started but was never going to do anything about the fact that he was reacting every time my DP moved anywhere in the house....

Yes I think that's the problem, the trainer was very knowledgeable about dogs but didn't help with our particular issues. I searched for someone with foreign rescue experience but couldn't find anyone. I'll go back to his rescue and ask again though.

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tabulahrasa · 28/02/2022 00:21

The car btw, I did in about 6 weeks or so.

I started off beside the car, with him on a longline (where my car is isn’t secure) and he was rewarded for just looking at it, then being near it. When he was ok being near it, I climbed in and he was rewarded just for looking inside and so on... until he’d jump in of his own accord and hang out with me, then I got out and got him going in to hang out getting fed while I stood next to the door, then I went in the front, then shut doors, then briefly turned the engine on and off again.

Waited on each step till he was comfortable before moving on to the next one, then finally driving half a mile to go for a walk and extending it.

He has happily done half hour journeys now, I haven’t done longer because I haven’t needed to.

He was old enough to walk to the vet before I could drive him there, lol

tabulahrasa · 28/02/2022 00:26

www.facebook.com/groups/TheDogsPointofView/?ref=share

tabulahrasa · 28/02/2022 00:30

Sorry, my phone kept hiding the keyboard halfway through typing.

That group is set up for Romanian dog owners and you didn’t say where yours was from, but it has loads of useful info and is where I was recommended the trainer I use now.

statetrooperstacey · 28/02/2022 07:54

I was advised to keep things basic to begin with . Access to only 1 or 2 rooms, no run of the house, no sleeping on people beds, No sofas , sit on the floor with them, do not overwhelm with toys, keep treats low value, because they haven’t had much they can begin to resource guard very quickly, and they can choose anything! Furniture, beds, objects, people. So we were warned not to ‘ spoil’ them as they become overwhelmed with all this ‘stuff’ that they now ‘have’ and they want to keep it and make sure no ones going to take it away .
I mean there’s a bit more to it than that but that’s the basic premise. So I’m wondering if you’ve given him too much too soon, Obviously with the best of intentions!
Because that’s a problem that can be fixed !

Happenchance · 28/02/2022 08:17

If you do decide to keep him then training classes are a bad idea. He's nervous of other dogs and people, so the last thing he needs is to be trapped on a lead (and trapped in a room, if the classes are indoors) surrounded by a lot of strange dogs and their owners, including kids. I would advise that you read about trigger stacking, as it may help explain some of his behaviour and help you pre-empt when you need to take all pressure of him.

Does he have somewhere safe to go in the house to get away from the children?

If you tell us roughly where you live, then someone on here may be able to recommend a behaviourist who specialises in foreign rescues.

Original poster

dogissues99 · 28/02/2022 09:13

@tabulahrasa

Sorry, my phone kept hiding the keyboard halfway through typing.

That group is set up for Romanian dog owners and you didn’t say where yours was from, but it has loads of useful info and is where I was recommended the trainer I use now.

Thank you, I've asked to join. He is a Bosnian rescue but I imagine they have similar needs.

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Original poster

dogissues99 · 28/02/2022 09:15

@statetrooperstacey

I was advised to keep things basic to begin with . Access to only 1 or 2 rooms, no run of the house, no sleeping on people beds, No sofas , sit on the floor with them, do not overwhelm with toys, keep treats low value, because they haven’t had much they can begin to resource guard very quickly, and they can choose anything! Furniture, beds, objects, people. So we were warned not to ‘ spoil’ them as they become overwhelmed with all this ‘stuff’ that they now ‘have’ and they want to keep it and make sure no ones going to take it away . I mean there’s a bit more to it than that but that’s the basic premise. So I’m wondering if you’ve given him too much too soon, Obviously with the best of intentions!

Because that’s a problem that can be fixed !

Thanks, we did similar at first, he was in the kitchen In his crate, then he didn't go in there anymore and branched out into the front room and slowly the rest of the house. He sleeps in the kitchen at night, he has massively improved in this area as in the early months he was stealing anything he could and resource guarding them in quite a scary way. We did the swap technique with him and now we can take things out of his mouth with no problem and he doesn't steal much anymore, only smelly socks.

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Original poster

dogissues99 · 28/02/2022 09:17

@Happenchance

If you do decide to keep him then training classes are a bad idea. He's nervous of other dogs and people, so the last thing he needs is to be trapped on a lead (and trapped in a room, if the classes are indoors) surrounded by a lot of strange dogs and their owners, including kids. I would advise that you read about trigger stacking, as it may help explain some of his behaviour and help you pre-empt when you need to take all pressure of him.

Does he have somewhere safe to go in the house to get away from the children?

If you tell us roughly where you live, then someone on here may be able to recommend a behaviourist who specialises in foreign rescues.

Thanks I'll look it up. He has his bed to go in and they know to leave him alone, we try to shut him out when they are eating but it's not always possible. We are in South Wales, the rescue have got back to me today and have a trainer they recommended.

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Original poster

dogissues99 · 28/02/2022 09:18

@tabulahrasa

The car btw, I did in about 6 weeks or so.

I started off beside the car, with him on a longline (where my car is isn’t secure) and he was rewarded for just looking at it, then being near it. When he was ok being near it, I climbed in and he was rewarded just for looking inside and so on... until he’d jump in of his own accord and hang out with me, then I got out and got him going in to hang out getting fed while I stood next to the door, then I went in the front, then shut doors, then briefly turned the engine on and off again.

Waited on each step till he was comfortable before moving on to the next one, then finally driving half a mile to go for a walk and extending it.

He has happily done half hour journeys now, I haven’t done longer because I haven’t needed to.

He was old enough to walk to the vet before I could drive him there, lol

Thanks, this is what we were recommended to do using the likimat.

OP posts:

tabulahrasa · 28/02/2022 10:18

“Thanks, this is what we were recommended to do using the likimat.”

I couldn’t have started with the lickimat - he wouldn’t even walk past the car without trying to get away from it, lol, I had to start with pretty much convincing him it was ok the parked car existed.

I’ve had dogs nervous of being in cars before, he was much worse - I assume because of the drive over tbh, I don’t know how much that terrified him or not as I didn’t get him straight from Romania... but it can’t have been a good journey.

Happenchance · 28/02/2022 10:47

We are in South Wales, the rescue have got back to me today and have a trainer they recommended. Are the rescue recommending a behaviourist or a trainer? It's a behaviourist that you need. Tbh, the rescue don't sound very good. A decent rescue would be doing all that they could to encourage you to return him.

Not in South Wales, but these are well regarded in Sheffield and they have an online event about Rommies and Rescues (though I'm sure it's applicable to foreign rescues from other parts of the world) peopleanddogs.co.uk/events/ It may help your husband realise that your dog isn't the right fit for your family.

Original poster

dogissues99 · 28/02/2022 12:17

@Happenchance

We are in South Wales, the rescue have got back to me today and have a trainer they recommended. Are the rescue recommending a behaviourist or a trainer? It's a behaviourist that you need. Tbh, the rescue don't sound very good. A decent rescue would be doing all that they could to encourage you to return him.

Not in South Wales, but these are well regarded in Sheffield and they have an online event about Rommies and Rescues (though I'm sure it's applicable to foreign rescues from other parts of the world) peopleanddogs.co.uk/events/ It may help your husband realise that your dog isn't the right fit for your family.

She is a behaviourist.

The rescue are sympathetic but no there is no practical advice, I did confirm today that they would rehome him for us if needed and they will.

OP posts:

Original poster

dogissues99 · 28/02/2022 12:21

@tabulahrasa

“Thanks, this is what we were recommended to do using the likimat.”

I couldn’t have started with the lickimat - he wouldn’t even walk past the car without trying to get away from it, lol, I had to start with pretty much convincing him it was ok the parked car existed.

I’ve had dogs nervous of being in cars before, he was much worse - I assume because of the drive over tbh, I don’t know how much that terrified him or not as I didn’t get him straight from Romania... but it can’t have been a good journey.

This is what I mean about getting advice from trainers that dont know foreign rescues. When she said it, it all sounded so simple, follow the process and he will get in the car. The reality is so far from that.

If I had spent three days in a cage, in a van with a load of other dogs then I would also be fully committed to never getting into a vehicle again too!

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axolotlfloof · 28/02/2022 12:26

I love dogs but I think you are crazy to not have rehomed him the first time he lunged at your child.
Do it now, while he is still young.

He could easily seriously injure a 6 y o with one bite.

TheChestertons · 28/02/2022 14:40

You need a veterinary behaviourist OP, asap. They will be able to diagnose the core problem and prescribe a rehab plan, including medications if needed. Based on their assessment, they will refer you to qualified trainers who are equipped to deal with your dog's specific issues using positive methods. Your vet will need to refer you to a behavioural practice and you can then claim on your insurance. Qualified advice is £££ (think close to a grand for the initial consult), but it's worth it. Poor advice at this stage could seal the dog's fate (and yours!).

Given the severity of the behaviour you describe, forget people who are not qualified vets at this point and fgs don't listen to your (idiotic!) husband. The risks are simply too high given the behaviour you describe around your kids. Also, these fear based issues will likely get worse as your dog ages, not better, as they are constantly reinforced if not addressed.

Sadly, I say this from bitter experience with our poor dog - I knew from day 1 we needed help but my partner would not hear it - "he's fine; just needs time; he'll improve with age" blah blah blah. The result is, as you correctly anticipate, he's got worse and worse and worse - can't get him in the car, can't take him to the vet, can't walk him anywhere near other dogs, can't have anyone he doesn't know in the house, can't leave him even for 5 mins while I go to the shop, can't leave him with my (dog loving) parents as I'm too worried about the potential risk to them. It is a living nightmare, despite how much I adore him.

Similarly, we saw several trainers and "behaviourists" in the early days, at least one of whom was properly accredited. Without exception, they were an absolute waste of time and money: they did not assess the dog properly and recommended things that made the problems worse. Some of the techniques were downright dangerous and, with hindsight, it's a miracle no one was hurt. Undoubtedly, ddog has been further traumatized by this. That is not to say there aren't excellent behaviourists out there who are not vets, but you can't risk finding a dud at this juncture and realising that too late, as I did. It's not always easy to spot: one of the behaviourists we saw has won loads of awards and does a lot of promotional stuff locally but they were USELESS.

I wish every day I had asked the vet to refer us at the outset, as my gut said I should. Likely, I would not be a prisoner in my own home now if I had listened to my intuition.

[Generalisation alert:] Men will invariably dismiss women's valid concerns about things they consider unimportant, because otherwise they might actually have to get off their lazy arses, make some effort and admit they don't always know best. Then they fuck off and leave you with the fall out ... But that's another sad thread .

You are right OP!! Your children are at risk and your life will get smaller and smaller the longer this goes on. Your husband has already demonstrated he is unwilling or unable to take the action necessary to keep your kids and the dog safe. Listen to yourself and speak to your vet today.

P.s. HUGS to you, because it's so, so hard and you sound like a lovely conscientious owner xx

Newuser82 · 28/02/2022 14:54

Have you tried contacting a registered behaviourist (APBC)? They will be best places to help with the dogs issues before someone gets hurt.

steppemum · 28/02/2022 15:01

If you didn't have kids, then I would say persevere, and accept what he is and what his limitations are.

Bu this is really not fair on your kids. Someone is going to get hurt, and it is most likely to be the kids.

he is growling, barking and lunging at your children. This dog is not safe around kids, please don't feel guilty about rehoming him.

Original poster

dogissues99 · 28/02/2022 20:23

@TheChestertons