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Too late to introduce a clicker?

11 replies

Aria20 · 23/02/2022 09:38

My spaniel has just turned 1. We didn't use a clicker for training. She is clever and picks things up quickly but is not majorly food motivated. She gets manic if I try to use a ball as a reward so I wondered if it's too late to try a clicker? She is in adolescent phase so mainly I want to get back to nice loose lead walking as she can do it! And reinforce recall as she's started picking and choosing when to come so obviously long line again while I work on it.

OP posts:
SirSniffsAlot · 23/02/2022 09:56

It is never too late to introduce a clicker but be sure you know what the clicker's purpose is and why it is sometimes a good choice (and sometimes not a great one).

The clicker is not really a reinforcer, it is a clear and umambiguous marker that a reinorcer is on it's way. You always follow it straight away with a reinfocer, such as food.

It's two main benefts are

a) it is a quick short noise so allows you to be precise about the behaviour you want to mark and then reward. i.e. if shaping a complex behaviour starting with something easier. So, if I wanted to train the dog to spin I might use a clicker to mark the turn of his head as spinning starts with turning. Then slowly increase my criteria until I have the full spin. The clicker allows me to be split-second quick about what behaviour I want.

b) it is the same noise everytime, thus doing away with any variation of voice and the impact that might have on the dog. e.g. frsutration creeping in and the dog reading that as a punishment.

From your description, it does not sound like a clicker is what you are needing. I wouldn't use a clicker for recall. I would use long lines and really high value treats and praise. If she loves a ball then this is one of the behaviours where you can use it to great effect. But in a limited way to prevent over excitement.

In fact, one of the main downsides to using a clicker is that it 'takes up' a hand. Recall training, with one hand maybe on a lead, one on a poo bag and one reaching for treats (already too many hands) might be an occasion where I would not recommend a clicker.

Ditto loose lead - to many things to do with too many hands, for me. I would be using treats to lure/reward here, I think.

I hear what you're saying about food not being a great motivator (in which case the clicker will suffer the same fate - because the clicker is only ever as otivating as the reinforcer you use with it). Not unusual for young dogs not to be food focussed - perservere.

SirSniffsAlot · 23/02/2022 09:58

Much typing there! Short version... a clicker is not a reward and expecting it to take the place of a ball or food, will not work. Sorry! It's just an indicaton to the dog that food/toys etc are coming. Much like "good girl" might be.

Nailsbythesea · 23/02/2022 10:00

Yes, in short. I have trained an 8 year old lab with it (not mine) although he wanted food rewards -I didn't give them -liked the praise he got instead.

Aria20 · 23/02/2022 10:29

Thank you @SirSniffsAlot I totally see what you mean about not enough hands! Hmmm I guess just perseverance and constant practice is the answer not a clicker!

OP posts:
SirSniffsAlot · 23/02/2022 10:37

Clickers are useful for some things - but I don't think many people know how to use them to their best effect.

They tend to think of them as remote controls or the click being a reinforcer in and of itself. Which, of course, it isn't - because why would a dog find a random clicking noise reinforcing?

At a year old, your dog is at a prime age for it to feel like training is going backwards. It can be a leap of faith at this age. Perservere, be calm and consistent, and trust that your efforts will not be wasted once she matures a bit more. Smile

MabelMoo23 · 23/02/2022 10:51

Question re clicker, we are getting a miniature dachshund pup very shortly, and we have two older cats.

I want to use positive reinforcement to train the pup to ignore the cats, so do you think a clicker immediately followed by a treat would work, or actually is a word better?

Again, I know starting early, a random word used with a treat can be a way of interrupting barking - yes I know daxies are stubborn barky little sods so trying to lay the foundations whilst I can!

SirSniffsAlot · 23/02/2022 11:01

In theory a clicker and a word will both work exactly the same. So it comes down to personal preference and practicalities.

For me, I would choose the word in this scenario. Why? Because you can 'carry' a word around with you all the time so use it every time you see the behavour you want. You are unlikely to have a clicker to hand 24/7 and so, inevitably, you may find you see the right behaviour but haven't got the clicker, or the clicker is in your pocket and you have to dig it out etc.

One of the key benefits of the clicker is that it is immediate - so you can be very precise about what you mark with it. That benefit goes away if you have to find the bloody thing first Smile

Use the same approach with the word as you would with the click and 'pre load it'. This means to use it repeatedly, immediately followed by the treat - regardless of what the dog is doing at the time. Once the dog has clearly linked the word to the treat, you are ready to use it for real. Be careful about timing so that you are only and always using your word when the dog really is doing what you want.

Some nice advice here, which is clicker-based. But you could use a word instead of a click:

www.battersea.org.uk/pet-advice/dog-advice/basics-clicker-training?gclid=Cj0KCQiA09eQBhCxARIsAAYRiylV1o8kR-Svy0M9G1Vii9x7V1d_K5hjJWKfd8PDCUl99tPnZe09pfgaAvM4EALw_wcB

Postdatedpandemic · 23/02/2022 11:21

Training an adolescent delinquent hunting style dog to do the things that is used to do is a long job requiring great patience and an extraordinary amount of arms. They do get it eventually.

We had a couple of things related to extreme prey drive so hired a trainer to help out, that didn't work well so we tried another one, ditto.

Now I have an imaginary trainer and it is great. I stand still and have a conversation with this latest trainer, dog gets bored and comes to stand next to me, paying vast amounts of attention. Learning to be a bit bored is the best thing an adolescent can learn.

You can introduce a clicker or whistle anytime you want to. Just think hard, which of my eight arms do I need to use right now?

Too late to introduce a clicker?
SirSniffsAlot · 23/02/2022 11:28

Love that picture! Grin

PollyRoulllson · 23/02/2022 12:10

Loads of science and research into best markers. The noise of a clicker has shown to impact on dogs more than a marker word.

So for intially training I would start with the clicker.

A clicker and loose lead walking with a spaniel is a really good idea.

Remember the reinforcer does not have to be food (athough initially I would use food). For a spaniel and loose lead walking I would click for correct and then end to go sniff. Put sniff on a cue and usually the best reinforcer for spaniels out and about

PollyRoulllson · 23/02/2022 12:11

I find using a clicker on a wrist strap is the easiest

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