Anyone neutered their dog for sake of day care?

[LemonCake79]

Hoping someone else has been in the same position... my spaniel has just turned 12 months. He goes to day care once a week, he seems to love it there.

He can't continue to go without being castrated as it's against their policy. This seems common to all day cares where I live (albeit some say 6 months) and I do need the care as one day a week DH and I are both out the house all day.

If it wasn't for day care I wouldn't be neutering him now as I don't see the benefit. I could leave him home with a walker coming for an hour but we are gone for 9 hours and I think he'd be lonely and bored alone for such a long day.

Not sure what I'm asking really... has anyone else been in the same situation? I feel so sad that his lovely coat may start to go fluffy and that he will be in pain. It also closes the door on breeding from him which I'm not sure is something I'd have even contemplated.

My previous dog was a bitch so there seemed to a much clearer clinical argument for spaying her.

There are medical benefits of neutering.

Your dog will not be in pain. After slight discomfort your dog will swiftly forget about his loss. He doesn’t want to be a dad and he does want to be invited to social gatherings 😀

The royal veterinary college says neutering:

*Eliminates the risk of developing testicular cancer which is the second most common tumour in male dogs

• Protects against prostatic diseases commonly seen in unneutered dogs
• Prevents hernias, particularly perineal hernias, which are painful and require surgical correction.

Also, dogs with balls tend to be unpopular with other dogs 😂

Not because of daycare as I was going to neuter him anyway but it was one factor.

Another factor in when we did it was based on when I could be at home with him for 2 weeks for his recovery.

BiteyDog was neutered at 10.5 months and is a WCS.

We clip his coat so I was not bothered at all about that and would never have breed from him. Yes he was uncomfortable from it briefly but then he has been in pain from many other accidents and illnesses that were far worse.

My dog would be really upset to be left alone for that length of time hence going to daycare so if that is your reason for doing it then I would go ahead but I am sure you will get many others saying find a different daycare/stay at home/use a walker etc.

I neutered my beagle (strongly encouraged to by daycare) and I wish I hadn't.

If I had my time again I would have found alternative care for him and left him entire.

He was a bit nervous anyway and the lack of testosterone made it worse and he's now quite reactive on the lead when he's around other dogs. He's never been aggressive but he's not as confident as he was and I wish we hadn't done it for his sake.

I really think neutering dogs is overated. Yes, there are SOME health benefits for neutering, the same as there are SOME benefits for not doing it.
If you are not comfortable with it, look for alternative care.

If you hadn't considered breeding from him is that an argument not to? Is there a need to breed from him, or just something you think 'would be nice' for him? The dog will not care, it is only for the owners benefit for cute puppies.

Theres no reason not to neuter him and it means he can keep going to the daycare where he must be settled by now. If you can't find alternative care then it would be cruel to leave him un neutered when it isn't for his benefit.

Its good that you're considering it, but its something they bounce back from very quickly and he can keep seeing his pals at doggy daycare, which he would probably like more than being left alone.

No, I wouldn’t trust a daycare who requires something against vet advice just for their ease- particularly if he isn’t exhibiting any behaviours that require it. My vet would say don’t neuter until 18months minimum, and I think it’s really irresponsible of day cares to put owners in the position where they are doing something against the welfare of the dog. I’d wonder about their other practices and expertise.
Some dog walkers do drop in visits of 20mins or so- could you do a long walk in the morning, and then a drop in for a toilet break and play in the afternoon or similar? Or try one of the home day cares that do smaller numbers of dogs- they tend to be a bit more sensible.
I’ve also never used borrow my doggy, but know some who swear by it- perhaps look on there for someone who might help you out one afternoon a week? Maybe ask on this board if anyone has direct experience

For all those advising neutering, I am not anti-neuter, just against doing it too early.
Testosterone helps with joint and bone development, so you shouldn’t remove the testosterone before the growth plates are closed. Testosterone also helps with confidence and maturity so is beneficial through the adolescent phase.

I'm not sure about spaniels but with large dogs you are advised to wait until they reach around 2 and are fully developed. Depending on personality, it's also really important to wait until they are calmer and developed their personality otherwise they stick in the teenage years.

I haven't neutered my dog as we were waiting for the above reasons as recommended by vet and trainers. By the time it was time, there was no benefit other than possibly living longer so we haven't bothered.

Personally, I find day care for dogs a bit urgh! Dogs don't need to be socialised unless it's a dog they will be involved with, a walker in the middle of the day if you are out would be more beneficial and cheaper. There is also a lot of risk. These dogs can't always be watched and sometimes there will be a scrap!

@MrsWinters

For all those advising neutering, I am not anti-neuter, just against doing it too early. Testosterone helps with joint and bone development, so you shouldn’t remove the testosterone before the growth plates are closed. Testosterone also helps with confidence and maturity so is beneficial through the adolescent phase.

Absolutely true and well explained. Enough people aren't told about this and I think it's harmful to the dogs we apparently care for so much.

Search for a vet that does vasectomies rather than castration

Get the walker to come twice on that day .

Like other people it wasn’t the only reason but it was a factor. Plus some home boarders won’t take un neutered males either.
In actual fact it was the right decision for us for a variety of things

@MrsWinters

For all those advising neutering, I am not anti-neuter, just against doing it too early. Testosterone helps with joint and bone development, so you shouldn’t remove the testosterone before the growth plates are closed. Testosterone also helps with confidence and maturity so is beneficial through the adolescent phase.

Exactly - well said.

The belief that neutering is always the best thing to do is potentially quite dangerous for some dogs. It's wrong that walkers and daycares essentially force owners to neuter, though I know many don't have a choice due to insurance or licensing restrictions.

I'm a dog walker myself and have no issue walking entire males. I wish I'd kept my own dog entire - the lack of testosterone has definitely lowered his confidence and he can be quite fearful around new dogs (absolutely fine once introduced properly though).

Neutering can be fine for some dogs but it shouldn't be the automatic go-to answer IMO.

Thank you. All these responses are really helpful.

@Gribbit987, you're right. The risk-benefit analysis for neutering a dog is not clear cut at all so it is hard to remember there are benefits.

@BiteyShark, I think mine would be lonely too. I could have a walker twice a day but I still think he'd be sad when he was dropped back to an empty house. I dare say he'd get used to it over time though, it's just he seems to love day care.

Thanks @fairylightsandwaxmelts, I do worry about this. I don't think my dog is nervous but I've seen the impact neutering had on a friend's anxious dog.

Thanks @MrsWinters, I appreciate your views and what you say is in line with my concerns. This is a smaller set up, it's on a nearby farm and I really do think it is a good one. There are only five registered day cares nearby and loads of ' I have a Facebook page and no clue' type places and I want to avoid those. The woman who owns our one is still taking my dog even though he's turned one but the council don't like her having intact dogs and he has started repeatedly humping her dog. I do think he will have to be neutered if we keep him in day care.

@PollyRoulllson, that makes a lot of sense but I just asked my vet friend and she says she hasn't seen a vasectomy in 20 years as a vet. They aren't common here.

@Stellaris22, I know I shouldn't drip feed but he's a vulnerable spaniel breed so breeding would be encouraged. That said he is my pet, I don't show him and probably wouldn't know where to start with finding a mate.

Some of his litter mates will be bred so I guess it crossed my mind but realistically it probably wouldn't be something I'd do.

My friend did. He was fine. No change but he's a large breed and she really didn't want to.

I've never neutered my male dogs. I don't believe it to be necessary and it has little to no effect on behaviour despite that being used to sell neutering as a positive norm. Some European countries do not routinely neuter their male dogs and consider it cruel to do so. I was told Norway for one though could be wrong. Recently in Spain and noticed almost all male dogs were intact there.

I do feel quite irritated by the constant assertions that it's irresponsible not to neuter your dog and should be an automatic decision to do so. It depends on the dog and I've seen far more negative outcomes - nervous, hyper sensitive dogs who become fearful or even more aggressive and cannot tolerate intact dogs.

I'd avoid if possible.

Also practically speaking some dog walkers do 90 minute or two hour walks where I live. A walk in the morning then a dog walker for a long walk midday should be enough imo.

We are running up against this as no daycare or boarders or even group dog walkers will take him. We have had to pay extra for 1:1 walker and pet sitters in our own home for a holiday. It does make life difficult

The vet and our 2 dog trainers independently strongly advised against neutering him until 18 months as he is large and I don't feel I should ignore that.
He does have problem behaviours of mounting and jumping though so I can't blame the daycare people. At the moment I am taking the view that I have to try to get through it.

Thanks @fairylightsandwaxmelts, I do worry about this. I don't think my dog is nervous but I've seen the impact neutering had on a friend's anxious dog.

Could you try chemical castration first @LemonCake79? I wish we had - then I'd never have neutered him.

My springer is about to stop going to daycare for this very reason. I did speak to the vet about it and she advised not to do it. She said it should only been done if it’s absolutely necessary, even if it’s the chemical castration. She said some dogs do really need it done for behaviour issues but she said it would not be right to do it just to fit in with some rules at daycare.

She said the view of just doing it as soon as they get to a certain age was old fashioned and that there can in some cases be unwanted changes to the dog afterwards so why risk it if not really needed.

@fairylightsandwaxmelts, I've spoken to my vet friend again and I'm going to go for the chemical castration. My vet has ordered one that lasts for six months so if we really dislike the impact we can reverse it and worry about daycare then.

I think that's sensible, OP.

Like @fairylightsandwaxmelts, we neutered a dog well before a year old because the vet suggested it as the normal thing to do. He was a large dog, and IMO it had an impact on his growth (his back legs were too long compared to his front legs) which quite probably predisposed him to the arthritis that he suffered from for the last few years of his life. He was also a nervous dog.

I'm in exactly the same position OP.

Im glad I've found this thread as previously I've seen a lot of negative, almost aggressive posts on here directed at owners that leave their dogs entire. Ddog is 17 months old, has shown no behavioural problems, no humping. I dont see why there would be any reason to put him through the stress and pain of surgery. It seems to have more health drawbacks than positives. Lopping his balls off just on the vague off-chance he may get testicular cancer seems ridiculous to me. I'm going to start looking for alternative care and if no joy will consider chemical castration as a last resort.

@LemonCake79 I think your plan to try chemical castration first is sensible, as that will take him to 18 months and you can make a decision either way then.

We were forced to have a rescue neutered. The rescue wanted him done at 6 months but our vet wrote to explain it was medically inadvisable because, having been very ill as a young pup - necessitating prolonged isolation, he was still underdeveloped physically, as well as nervous and fearful of other dogs. He was a very large dog and at 12 months the rescue told us to neuter him or they would sue us and take him back. Vet wrote again, but they still insisted he was done. In the end, after all the wrangling back and forth, he was done at 15 months old and despite extensive behavioural work he remained fearful and anxious for his whole life. Prior to neutering we were making progress working with a breed specialist behaviourist and I believe, if he had been left entire, we would eventually have helped him overcome his fear of other dogs.

Another of my male dogs wasn’t neutered until he was 8, when his prostate started causing issues with his bladder. The only difference we noticed with him afterwards was more of a tendency to gain weight.

I think neutering has it’s place, but it shouldn’t be done prior to full physical maturity (which varies by breed and size) or be a blanket policy. It should be carefully considered on a case by case basis. I was very thankful that my vet was willing to step in and help when the rescue was pressuring us to neuter a large breed dog at 6 months old and found it bewildering that they were willing go against veterinary advice and threaten to sue and take him off us if he wasn’t done at 12 months, when it clearly wasn’t in his interests.

[quote LemonCake79]@fairylightsandwaxmelts, I've spoken to my vet friend again and I'm going to go for the chemical castration. My vet has ordered one that lasts for six months so if we really dislike the impact we can reverse it and worry about daycare then. [/quote]
I think that's a really good plan :)