Help please. Dog unmanageable away from home

[Goawayangryman]

Golden retriever bitch puppy, 7.5 months.
Not at all biddable, but very smart. Not food motivated at all. Slightly wary character, def not the alpha pup. Freaked out by wind and anything that flaps in said wind. She was very thoroughly socialized although possibly not to extreme wind....hard to find those opportunities in their socialisation window!

So. We are away for a short week and she has been an unbridled nightmare since we got here. Went 13 hours without a pee, didn't eat for 24 hours really either, after we arrived. Has picked at food since.

She will only pee and poop when absolutely busting. On afternoon of day 2 I thought we'd cracked it as she found a spot she'd gone a couple of times and seemed to have settled a bit.

Today, she wouldn't go in her pee place
for either a wee or a poo until desperate. Distracting herself with twigs, sticks, biting on lead, messing around, all sorts. Only one wee outside since 720am. Another on the sofa in the holiday cottage and she is totally dry at home, has been since 16 weeks. Been taking her out every 30 minutes or so. She has had a wide choice of pee spots. Grass (no thank you), streets, shingles in a protected spot (where she usually goes at home), sand, soil...All a big fat nope.

I am losing the will and everyone is fed up with her barking and whining and I feel like I'm failing her and missing something important.
I was totally prepared to bring her on holiday/ to visit relatives with us for the foreseeable 10 years. I was less prepared to never be away from home at all for the next decade ....

We are going home soon but I want to know what is going on in order to avoid this in the future.

She is well-loved, gets lots of fuss. At least 2 or 3 training sessions a day, usually plenty of off-lead running and play.

Help.

Sorry to be clear, we arrived well before the storms, on Tuesday. The storm has potentially made things worse but it was pretty bad before!

Has she stayed away from home before? I'm no expert but our Rommie rescue never really eats properly on holiday so we just give him little snacks through the day rather than 2 meals a day. I cant help with the weeing as Ddog never just goes out for a wee even at home each wee has to be proceeded by a longish walk.

I’m so sorry you’re having such a stressful time. Has she ever been away from home before? Have you visited other people’s houses and how has she been then?
Is she crate trained and if so does she have access to her crate as her safe space?
I’d imagine that everyone being stressed at her is making her more stressed as dogs are so sensitive… is there anyway to take a collective deep breath and know that this will almost certainly pass, and is no indicator that it will be forever (easier said than done, I know).

What sort of bed does she have when away? If she has a crate at home did you take it with you? Anything different about the arrangements on holiday I.e allowed upstairs at home but not in the holiday property?

We thought we were winning with our Lab and holiday cottages. 6months to 1 year, super-adaptable, settled well, quickly found a toilet spot in the gardens etc.
This time, now she’s 1, fussy fanny-pants who howled when left downstairs . Same cottage, too.

She’s in an unfamiliar place and she’s at a tricky age (I’d say 8 months and 15-18months are retriever puppies naughtiest stages). It will pass but you need to be consistent with good training. When you say you train her 2-3 x daily, who provided the training framework? It doesn’t sound like you are all that confident with it. Either go back to that that trainer for a refresher session or get a new behaviourist/trainer in (who uses positive methods).

If that’s out of budget, join the DTAS group on Facebook (dog training advice and support). Make sure you get the genuine one, there are a few dodgy copycats. DTAS isn’t a community advice share group, it is strictly a group where the advice is given by specialists. So you know you aren’t going to get a load of half-baked armchair trainers sticking their oar in.

To answer some Q

Urgh! To answer some questions.

She has a pen at home and we brought it here. She wouldn't tolerate it here downstairs and so like when i go to my folks I took it upstairs. She sleeps fine at night.

I'm in the DTAS FB group already and have two very expensive and very experienced (police dog) trainers. Their opinion is she is too wilful and has been allowed to get away with too much.

Does she know where you all are at all times?
Our Goldie happily goes on holiday with us but gets nervous if he can’t see us all at any point. He keeps a very close eye on the door and will not let anyone be between him and the door - presumably in case we abandon him!
If he knows we are in eye sight he will settle well but if not he goes around looking for whoever is missing.

Could it be smells from other dogs. Our girl finds holiday cottages incredibly sniffy for the first few hours and reacts in the garden like she does on a walk (trying to find suitable wee and poo places etc).

We joke that she needs more experience of holiday cottages, oh dear what a shame, we’ll have to go away lots of weekends but really, it is familiarity with a new situation and practice at it.

Is she better when you stay with family? I think she might just need to know that sometime you all go to another house and that’s ok.
Use strategies for whining and barking you would use at home. We ignore whining, offer an alternative behaviour to that or barking (sit, find a toy, touch hand, anything to divert).

My sympathies.
I have just come back from 4 nights away with OH and our nearly 2 year old lurcher. I home cooked his usual meals so we could just heat them up, brought a few of his beds and toys to scatter around.
He (very food motivated) didn't eat (was bile sick two mornings because he was so hungry). I think some dogs are just more sensitive to smells and sounds and changes to routines.
We abandoned meal times and just ordered a starter or something when we went out for a pub meal. He was really happy running on the beach so that's when I would take the opportunity to feed him bits of sausage or whatever.
It is hard work and it can be quite frustrating when you want to relax but she will be fine for a week. We got home today, he has cleared his bowl, done a giant poo and is now asleep on the sofa.
I think I need to bring him to different places and houses so he de-sensitises to change. I would definitely bring his food bowls from home too as that really confused him. Just patience I guess. I know that my dog is a sensitive soul so I'll just factor that in in the future.

their opinion is she is too wilful and has been allowed to get away with too much
I’d sack the trainers and find someone new if that’s their attitude . Golden retrievers are puppies for a long time and yours is still a baby so it is not helpful to ‘label’ her . To me she sounds like a frightened baby , take her home and back to her normal routine and try taking her on holiday when she’s a bit older .

It won't work for this time, but have you taught her a word for weeing/pooing? We have an incredibly willful Saluki cross who doesn't do anything she doesn't want to, but we've, if not taught, aossciated her with the word "outside" to go for a wee. If she's standing around like a lemon we say "outside" to her firmly and it usually triggers a faint realisation we aren't out there for her health. Doesn't work every time but does seem to help. We did it by saying the word everyone she did a wee and we did a massive celebration with her. Our neighbours must have thought we were nuts as she jumps to head height when excited so she'd have a wee, we'd exclaim "outside" then all be jumping around like loons.
Ours also generally doesn't eat when away apart from can be hand fed sardines so sometimes we resort to that. Usually we just leave a bowl of kibble down and it's up to her if she gives up on her hunger strike. She can cope a few days without food, it wont kill her.
Generally I think they need to not be fussed over - they're worried about being somewhere new and if you make a fuss it reinforces that worry. Give her lots of affection and attention, but don't witter , if that makes sense. You say she keeps barking - is she barking to go outside or just because she's stressed? Ours stands in a corner and barks when she's stressed out - we take her to a quiet room, get her to lie down and put a blanket over her and it generally helps.

@Hoppinggreen thank you for your post. No, she can't work out where we have all gone sometimes but we have got around that by someone always been with her. Been doing the fabled "flitting" as a new place etc. At night she is with me in my bedroom in her usual pen with her bed as I just can't deal with the yapping and whining and I think it is distress.

We have been to my parents on several occasions and she has been fine.

This cottage is dog friendly and I'm sure there are many smells that she can't reconcile. But I'm not sure how to tackle that ...

She is not wilfull and also your comment about her not being biddable is a misinterpretation.

You are missing something very important.

She is nervous and overwhelmed.

If she wants to wee and she doesnt, she is the one that suffers - having a wee is self rewarding at the comfort that the dog will feel. after the wee. The fact she is not weeing shows how anxious she is.

Her inability to not settle, barking, whining, not eating and appearing not to be motivated is showing you how she is feeling she is not doing this to annoy you. She is overwhelmed and uncomfortable.

If you change things now she will be fab to take on holiday with you in the future.

You say you do several training sessions a day - what do they consist of?

Flitting can be very stressful for many dogs.

Just imagine the scenario you are unsure, in a new place, not sure, and your only trusted person keeps disappearing.

For many dogs this will just increase their hypervigilance and stress and actually make them more anxious and stressed.

@PollyRoulllson I can totally see that. I e taken it to heart. What can I do right now when we literally cannot get home because our transport is unavailable? No sailings. This dog is clearly uncomfortable and I genuinely don't know what to do.

It’s early days for our current Lab, as it is for your dog, but if it’s any consolation, our previous Lab did get better and better at being away from home the more she did it. She did a confused poo in the hall of the first cottage we went to, totally out of character as she was completely house trained. I had visions of her having to go to kennels when we went away, but she improved immensely after that. The milkman at one cottage was a bit of a problem hescomingupthedrivehescomingupthedriveclankingbottleswoofwoofwoofwoof! but her crate was in the bedroom so we just told her Thank You Be Quiet, which was the cue we used at home for unexpected noises.
I know it’s not been very relaxing for you, but your girl is still very young and I’m sure she’ll get used to it the more you do it. Be firm and no nonsense, but I’m not sure your trainers have her personality quite right tbh. A slightly nervous adolescent isn’t ’getting away’ with anything. They just need a bit more reassurance without fuss or pandering.

Thank you for the posts. I am genuinely despairing tonight and it helps to have voices of sanity.
Even at home she is very highly strung though. These trainers have trained hundreds of dogs, professionally, and both also have had many pet dogs. They can't be that useless! One is a Kennel club bronze/ silver/ gold trainer. They aren't renegade self-proclaimed experts with no qualifications.

I’m not criticising your trainers, honestly. I just think you can be firm and consistent without thinking a nervous dog is ‘getting away’ with stuff.
I do know how you feel. Our current dog is sensitive to things our previous dog just took in her stride and it’s an adjustment to deal with.

Re the stress and hypervigilance. For context at home she is fine to be left for up to 4 hours. Sleeps alone at night.

Ok immediate first aid is to take all pressure off your dog.

If she does not wee (unfortunately for you) you will have to take her out again a bit later. If she does wee indoors ignore it and clean it up with no comments. She may not feel comfortable enough to wee outside in a new place and with this horrendous weather. But you can change things around for when you go away again so this is not a long term issue.

If possible take her to sheltered place or ironially very open places so the wind may be strong but there will not be the associated banging and thumping of gates, fences etc. Make sure all internal doors are shut and not banging, indoors try to disguise outside wind noises with tv etc to see if that helps to relax her.

If she is a dog that likes human touch then give her lots of it, if she chooses to go off on her own in a quiet place let her do that.

If she is not too worried she may like to chew so if you have things she can chew have them readily available. Chewing is great for chilling out dogs. even a carrot may help (but dont worry if she is not in the mood)

Go at her pace and do not overwhelm her. Encourage a lot of sleep, in the car if you are travelling or in the holiday home. This may be on the sofa or against rules you have at home but that is fine and she will not expect this when she gets home.

Offer her small amounts of food throughout the day, she may eat more if it is a game eg cover the food with your hand to get her interested and then flick the food (she may still not eat it if very stressed but worth a try)

At 7- 8 months ish dogs do go through a second fear stage so this may be coinciding with going away and horrendous weather to make things appear worse for all of you.

When you get home there are lots of calming and confidence building activities you can do to help her be able to deal with change in the future. They are fun to do for you and her.

But above all do not panic and think this is how it will be for the rest of her life, this is just a stage and it too will pass for you

Thank you. I really appreciate that @PollyRoulllson. Genuinely.

@Floralnomad

their opinion is she is too wilful and has been allowed to get away with too much I’d sack the trainers and find someone new if that’s their attitude . Golden retrievers are puppies for a long time and yours is still a baby so it is not helpful to ‘label’ her . To me she sounds like a frightened baby , take her home and back to her normal routine and try taking her on holiday when she’s a bit older .

Completely agree. Wouldn't let them near dogs!!

Its not the trainer that gets the Kennel club bronze/ silver/ gold trainer. it is the dog club. So in theory anyone can train the awards.....

I am concerned that your trainers are saying that she is "willful and been allowed to get away with too much" . It does tend to picture the old trainers of the 70 and 80's and we have moved on from that by a long way now.

These emotions just do not apply to dogs. Dogs will repeat behaviour that is rewarded. They may choose different rewards to what we think but if we can match the reward to the dogs motivation dog training is easier. People suddenly find they have a "good dog" a "dog willing to please" again total rubbish but it appears that as the dog is being rewarded and reinforced in a way that works for them.

Stubborn, willful, dominant, awkward, winding us up are not emotions dogs ever display.

If a trainer is blaming the dog for those things they are a rubbish trainer.