Are either of these behaviours anything to worry about? Guarding related

[3AndADog]

Hi, we have a lovely 8 month old cockapoo (I know, I know)

She has always been a bit of a terror with stealing things from work tops, tables etc. We have a bit of a building site in the garden and in her early months I took some things out of her mouth, eg insulation, plasterboard, screws etc not knowing much about the consequences with regard to potential future guarding (just for a bit of background)

Anyway I have read so much on here about resource guarding and it’s scared the anxious hell out of me. ( I struggle with anxiety)

She often spends time just roaming the kitchen/lounge searching for things to grab, and if she gets hold of anything she’ll run to her bed with it and if I approach she stiffens. I have learned not to panic if she gets something but instead go to the great bin and she usually comes running and then someone can retrieve the item in question. I have told all the family never to try and get something off her. If it’s something she really really mustn’t have I approach her with a high value treat and she usually relinquishes it but I do sense a reluctance! Today she grabbed a wet paintbrush from a fenced off area that she managed to get into while I was painting a skirting board. She ran to her bed and obviously I panicked and approached her, got the brush in my hand but she bit down on it and wouldn’t release. I managed to get one of the kids to bring me the treat bin and we dropped several treats around her in her bed and eventually she released her grip and gave up the brush. It has filled me with fear that she is developing a guarding behaviour and I’m so worried for what will come next. I have 3 kids aged 5-10 in the house.

The other incident is yesterday my eldest was playing with her in the garden with two toys, throwing one then swapping for the other when she went to retrieve it. Then after a while she developed a preference for one of them and held it in her mouth and as he approached her she growled at him. She was still bounding around tail wagging and seemed to be inviting the chase but I don’t know if it was an aggressive or playful growl, this has also got me extremely worried. I do t want to be afraid of my lovely dog but when her bucked fills up she can be so hyper and relentless, she just doesn’t know how to to settle down. I’m working with a trainer on her settle and separation anxiety but this guarding thing has really freaked me out, especially after all the horror stories I have read on this board, and recommendations of euthanasia for guarding dogs.

She has never guarded food, I hand feed her sometimes and she likes me to hold her chew on the sofa. She has never guarded the sofa or any area either.

I guess I’m just looking for reassurance that this isn’t the beginning of a long hard struggle and that we can get through this.

Thanks In advance

Nope not the beginning of a long hard struggle especially if you handle the situation calmly.

Teach a drop command in the following way - it is so simple it is magic. I would chance the word if you have already used on.

I say "thank you" Literally at random times throughout the day go up to your dog say thank you and give them a treat. Do it a lot for several days. You will begin to notice your dog coming towards you when you say thank you.

Thank you to them means open my mouth to get a treat.

So if you say thank you when they have an object they will come towards you and drop the object to get the treat - so simple and soooo effective.

Re swapping the dog toys - this is a great game and a great skill to teach your dog. So if they do fixate on one toy work really really hard to get them back to the other toy. If they dont come back to the toy next time stop the game a bit earlier. If they are parading and growling with one toy just leave the room. Game over. You need to be the game not the toy. They learn this one very quickly if you are consistent.

Also whilst they are playing with the toy do not let go of it yourself so you can always finish the game if the dog gets too excited and they can not run off with the toy.

The former would definitely worry me. While it's good that you do the swap technique - getting her to come away from the item for a treat, but you can't guarantee that your DC will always remember to do that, especially if the dog takes something that's really valuable to them eg. a toy or their favourite shoe.

The second is a bit different. On it's own, it wouldn't necessarily concern me. Many, many dogs growl in play and it's not (on its own) a reason to worry. But, combined with the fact that she does guard other items - yes, it would concern me I'm afraid.

Issues like guarding and separation anxiety really need a qualified behaviourist (with an MSc) as opposed to a general trainer, though. The PDSA has a good guide on how to find a properly qualified and accredited behaviourist.

www.pdsa.org.uk/pet-help-and-advice/looking-after-your-pet/puppies-dogs/certified-dog-behaviourists

Fairylightsandwaxmelts I think the fact that she is actively seeking for a item to steal is just typical puppy behaviour. She is bored wants attention and so stealing things is the quickest easiest way to get it. She knows it can turn into the best game as people go to her she can dart off etc.This is not worrying me as the start of RG.

@PollyRoulllson

Fairylightsandwaxmelts I think the fact that she is actively seeking for a item to steal is just typical puppy behaviour. She is bored wants attention and so stealing things is the quickest easiest way to get it. She knows it can turn into the best game as people go to her she can dart off etc.This is not worrying me as the start of RG.

Oh, I know that - the stealing itself doesn't bother me.

But it worries me that with small DC in the house, one of them may forget to swap the forbidden item for a treat and therefore end up getting bitten.

No one on Mumsnet can really advise properly without actually seeing your dog and your interactions with her. I always feel a bit uncomfortable to see the way advice is given on this board, often by people who are parroting what they have read or heard elsewhere but with little true understanding of dogs and dog behaviour. There are some very knowledgeable people here as well, I hasten to add. But less experienced dog owners may not be able to identify the knowledgeable people.

If you have genuine concerns about resource guarding, the best thing to do would be to contact an accredited and experienced behaviourist. Your dog's habit of stealing things could be typical puppy high spirits. Or it could be something more concerning. Similarly with growling. Some growling during play can be fine, but it's impossible for us to tell what sort of growling happened in the incident you described.

I know how worrying it can be if you're unsure what a dog's behaviour might mean. That would be another reason to consult a behaviourist who could provide either reassurance or guidance or both.

I think mumsnet is hyper sensitive about guarding dogs and that the issue is made bigger than it is (in my experience).

I have an adult (6yo) guarding cocker spaniel. She's been a guarder and hoarder since being a puppy. She doesn't like to chew or destroy things, she like to have things. Still does.

Its a ball ache. Shes hard work, anxious and cantankerous most of the time. Our other dog is so much easier and happier. But just because she's hard work doesn't mean we love her less.

Primarily - make it so dog cant get stuff she isn't allowed to have. Keep dangerous items out of reach 100% of the time, like you would with a toddler.

Stuff she gets that aren't dangerous, but we still don't want her to have (socks being most common), we just ignore. She will back herself into a corner with said item (so can only be approached from the front) and growl like mad, snap if we continue to press her. So we long-since learnt to ignore her. She doesn't chew stuff up, so natural consequence is she misses out on snuggles on the sofa, attention, even eating while she chooses to stay in the corner of a room with a sock.

We learnt to withdraw from the battle. Our children know never to appoach her when she has something, ever. Because she will bite.

If she has something dangerous, we do have tactics to get her to give it up. It just usually needs two people and is time consuming ~ Usually around 20-30 mins.

I just can't be arsed with that most of the time with that level of effort. So we learnt to ignore and make life interesting elsewhere. Sometimes she'll stay guarding for 3 or 4 hours, but eventually she gives in herself, without any promoting.

Thank you for the responses. @PollyRoulllson i gather from these boards that you’re somewhat an expert so your opinion is particularly reassuring.

While she does actively seek the majority of the items she ‘guards’, she also occasionally does it with found objects in the garden. And it’s the stiffening of her body that scares me - she sort of turns away and ducks her head with the item in her mouth.

However, I know if I could stop her jumping around looking for stuff to take we wouldn’t ha e this issue. She really really struggles to switch off, I haven’t managed to crate train as I’d hoped (she does love her crate to sleep overnight but I could never put her in there during the day) so she spends a lot of her waking hours jumping up at whatever activity the kids are doing at the kitchen table and trying to muscle in on the action. The more over tired and stressed she becomes the more relentless the stealing gets. Fortunately she’s extremely driven by treats so so far it’s been easy enough to manage but my anxiety over it is ridiculous. The kids have had it drummed into them for long enough not to approach her when she has anything, and tbh they’re very very rarely alone with her anyway - only my eldest and only while the dog is sleeping or at least relaxed.

As for mums net being over sensitive about guarding, I guess that’s what’s frightened me so much. I have been catastrophising over this all day and I just needed to hear that I will be able to overcome it. @Abbsie while it’s clear you love your dog I just don’t want to end up living like that, especially with such a young kid and also I don’t think my anxiety could handle it!

I should add she doesn’t always stiffen and guard the object - only occasionally. When she does this with things I don’t care about, I approach her with treats and leave them by her but don’t attempt to take the item. Sometimes I praise her. Is this ok?

@lessthanathirdofanacre

No one on Mumsnet can really advise properly without actually seeing your dog and your interactions with her. I always feel a bit uncomfortable to see the way advice is given on this board, often by people who are parroting what they have read or heard elsewhere but with little true understanding of dogs and dog behaviour. There are some very knowledgeable people here as well, I hasten to add. But less experienced dog owners may not be able to identify the knowledgeable people.

If you have genuine concerns about resource guarding, the best thing to do would be to contact an accredited and experienced behaviourist. Your dog's habit of stealing things could be typical puppy high spirits. Or it could be something more concerning. Similarly with growling. Some growling during play can be fine, but it's impossible for us to tell what sort of growling happened in the incident you described.

I know how worrying it can be if you're unsure what a dog's behaviour might mean. That would be another reason to consult a behaviourist who could provide either reassurance or guidance or both.

This !

I also with great caution urge you to work on your anxiety towards the dog . Some of the language you're using gives me the impression that you're likely to be anxious enough to pass this stress onto the dog .

DH says the same. I’m trying, I really am. Today it just really got to me.

I think this can be quite common with that breed. I have a similar aged, similar breed pup who is the same with items she knows she shouldn’t have! I do as pp said, ignore if not dangerous or persuade to drop with a high value treat. Again as pp said I’m more careful to make sure there’s less things for her to get. I’d worry more if my attempts to get her to leave it don’t work or she starts to guard her food, sofa or toys or something.
Xx

Taught mine to swap for a treat. So if I just show the treat he will drop the stolen item and swap it. He's quite smart and not takes the stolen things to the kitchen and sits awaiting his reward but I reckon this game is better than guarding. I think he thinks he's doing a job! It's normally socks, occasionally slippers and shoes here so nothing dangerous. We have taught leave it and drop....it seems to work ok but not reliable unless I can swap for something else, which he does immediately. Cocker spaniel so similar natured.

I’m not an expert so not best placed to advise on guarding, but assuming guarding comes from a place of fear of an item being taken away, teaching drop / rewarding choices to surrender it feels like good behaviour to build, as well as never ever wanting the thing.

I taught my lightfingered spanner to “tidy” stuff into a washing up bowl (lockdown fun and games initially!) but it’s actually proved v helpful in getting him to surrender contraband items without me needing to go near him. If he thinks I remotely want the thing in terms of my movement / body language, it’s infinitely more valuable and I’m never getting it. He’s an accomplished thief and pickpocket and I’m alive to signs of guarding.

It’s a fun game to teach - I just found a YouTube video and did it with a clicker and treats. It took some repetition to get the hang of it, but he loves to play it as a game, so it’s now not so alien for him to bring back a stolen item for tidying. He’ll deposit stuff in anything that looks like a box / bowl randomly now trying to extract food from me. It works for the (older) kids too as they know not to approach him but can get him to tidy stolen stuff without anyone getting into strife.

That said, I may have to carry a washing up bowl everywhere I go now….