Aggressive? Puppy

[WetRainbowRoses]

I’d really appreciate some advice here with my 6 month old entire male chihuahua please.
I’m unsure if I should be worried..

He’s always been a shy dog, I’ve had him since he was 8 weeks old and he was socialised extensively, out every day walking and in my arms.
I never let anyone touch him nor any dogs greet him because he was shy, I just used to give him treats when they came past.

I have another dog and he is very confident and can behave in what I think other dogs would think is a very rude way with her (this is relevant).
He has poor self control and gets frustrated easily and has a habit of repeatedly running at and backing away from my other dog, when he does this he’s quite low to the ground, sort of like a play bow and also running at her and barking in her face and pulling snarling faces at her to get her to play with him.
When they play, his play looks and sounds very aggressive - snarling faces, growling, biting, wrestling.
I am 100% confident there is no issue between him and my older dog, they are very close and friendly to one another and have never had a disagreement.

My concern is with other dogs.
On lead, if they ignore him he (usually) walks past without issue.
If they growl or bark or pull towards him he ‘answers back’ and barks, sometimes growls and pulls to try and get to them.
I don’t let him loose to greet strange dogs.

I’ve had three incidences now where he’s gotten loose and I’m unsure how to interpret his behaviour.
Two of the times he suddenly lunged unexpectedly and I dropped the lead as a result and the other time he was off lead and i hadn’t seen the other dog approaching.

Incident one, I dropped the lead and he ran at a small fluffy dog running towards and taking a few steps back and forward again in that low, play bow ish like posture like he does with my dog and repeatedly barking at it.
I apologised profusely, grabbed his lead and walked away and assumed he just wanted to play with it and was demanding like he does with my older dog.

The next time both dogs were loose, they were sat eating treats, I was completely unaware another dog was coming behind us and he just shot off running full pelt towards it.
Again, barking, running towards, few steps back, forward again.
This dog was enormous (big greyhound) and very placid and we ended up walking with them quite some distance with no problems at all, all three dogs largely ignored each other and did their own thing.

Then today, this is what has got me nervous and second guessing.
We were passing a small shy puppy.
We had gotten past it and both dogs were walking nicely at heel when he suddenly spun round and ran suddenly causing me to drop the lead.
He ran straight at this little puppy barking and making snarling faces at it (no growling and he never made contact, he was running and backing away a bit like with the other two dogs and my own).
The owner was (obviously) horrified and went to push him away and I was beyond mortified and very apologetic and pulled him away.
I want to still believe he is just frustrated and overexcited and trying to rudely insist on play but I’m just not sure?

As he’s quite a wary dog and an entire male I’m worried that what I’m seeing might be the start of real, actual dog aggression?
Especially as he shook off and also did it with the first fluffy dog and I heard the shake off is a sign of stress?

I know his behaviour with my older dog is genuine play and frustration and there’s no malice in it but I wouldn’t expect him to act the same way with others as he obviously doesn’t know them.

Just feeling a bit concerned really and unsure what to make of it all.

It’s the snarling face really that I suppose is worrying me.
Though it’s not combined with any growling at all (unless he is actually playing with my other dog in which case he growls a lot!) which makes me wonder if it is genuinely just his frustrated little way of trying to get the other one to play.

I’ve never had a dog that makes snarling faces without aggression before but he does it regularly to my other dog

Someone would need to see the behaviour to decipher it. Could be aggression. Could be a frustrated greeter.
If he’s nervous avoid neutering.
Done any formal training?

It would be hard for anyone here to know without actually seeing him in action. I could hazard a guess, but it wouldn’t be helpful without actually seeing him.

I would advise finding a qualified behaviourist and getting them to observe him. Have a look on the APBC and IMDT websites for someone in your area.

In the meantime, as he’s such a tiny dog and not one likely to pull you over, I would loop his lead handle over your wrist and then hold the lead, so that you can’t accidentally drop it when he takes you by surprise.

Could be a frustrated greeter
This was my initial conclusion too and the greyhound walk backed that up for me but then today just left me really wondering.
He wasn’t restrained today, I’d let go of his lead when he suddenly lunged and he’d run back to get to the pup so he wasn’t restrained.
We were a few feet away when he managed to get free.

If he’s nervous avoid neutering
I’ve heard this, I’m thinking of trying the implant.

Done any formal training?
No, he’s fairly good at walking to heel without pulling though most of the time.
Usually walks past dogs calmly if they are disinterested in him.
I mean, he’s 6 months old so he’s not perfect, but he’s pretty well behaved overall I’d say

In the meantime, as he’s such a tiny dog and not one likely to pull you over, I would loop his lead handle over your wrist and then hold the lead, so that you can’t accidentally drop it when he takes you by surprise
Thank you, I’ll do this in future

@PermanentlyDizzy would you be willing to say what your guess be based off what I’ve said would be?

I don’t let my dogs greet others and I’ll loop and hold the lead in future so it won’t happen again but I tend to take the dogs on a second walk in the afternoon to pick up my DD and it is very busy there with loads of noisy children and parents and dogs.

If the guess is that he’s nervous and beginning to show aggression (which is what I’m fearing) I may cut out that second walk if it’s going to stress him out.

Waist belt lead for safety ? I’m a bit mystified as to how you’ve dropped the lead so often .

I suspect this is all play except possibly the last one but maybe get a trainer / behaviourist involved or an experienced dog owning friend as you are really unsure as to how to read behaviour at the moment.

When my cavvie meets his family ( mum gran siblings ) the noise and jumping make you think it’s murder but they keep going back for more and charging around with waggy tails

I would not use the implant until you understand the behaviour. The implant reduces the testosterone just like castration so will make the behaviour worse.

Your dog is over threshold for whatever reason and needs to have a bigger distance between dogs. I would prevent all meetings for a while.

You do need qualified help make sure if you use IMDT that they are the behaviourist IMDTB as the rest are trainers.

This behaviour will escalate and not go away if the correct behaviour plan is not followed.

Waist belt lead for safety
I have been thinking about getting one of these for a while

You think it is likely to be nervous in nature then @PollyRoulllson and not a frustrated attempt at play? Or even a hormonal testing boundary testing out intimidating other dogs as he’s an adolescent now (which was another thought that crossed my mind)

It makes no sense to me, we were already past the puppy!
Surely if he was nervous he’d be relieved we were past?
Not run back to have a go

I’m not sure a behaviourist would be worth the money to be truthful because It won’t happen again, I don’t typically ever let my dog’s meet other dogs.
It was only able to happen because I dropped his lead but I had it looped through my wrist and holding today as advised by a PP.

And I will try and increase the distance when walking past other dogs in future though thank you.

Many dogs have a second fear stage around 6-8 months of age so I would be working on fear as a first port of call.

There are not really that many frustrated greeters around - it is an overused term, and usually on meeting the dogs it is a fearful dog.

You also have a breed that can barks first and then thinks later. However when they are barking they do not make the correct choices.S o do give your dog distance and when under threshold you can work on the situation.

It is very common for a reactive dog to react "after" the event eg when you have walked past the scary thing. They tend to bark and react to make them feel better eg get a bit of an adrenalin boost and make sure they scary thing stays away. However do not have the courage to do it face to face.

Also when the scary thing is behind you they can no longer see what it is doing so this does increase the anxiety in many dogs. Is the dog coming back, where has it gone, I cant see it so I feel more worried or if they chase back to the scary thing this will make sure it does not come back and get me .

You want to have loads and loads and loads of no reaction to dogs, turn away when you see on, let your dog know that no interactions will happen, he will chill out and the situation may diffuse just by doing this or at least he will be in a better place to be able to work on the situation

With no formal training and no chance to meet other dogs in an appropriate way I think this will continue.
It’s all well and good to say a dog walks ok at heel but that’s not all training is good for.

With no formal training and no chance to meet other dogs in an appropriate way I think this will continue.
It’s all well and good to say a dog walks ok at heel but that’s not all training is good for
I’m sorry but I’m not really sure what you are getting at here?
By ‘formal training’ are you referring to classes?
Because if you are there’s none local to me and even if there was, many of these classes are not run by professionals and there was no way I was going to risk an already quite shy tiny puppy in a room full of boisterous puppies bigger than him!

He walks at heel without pulling most of the time, he rarely barks at the door or noises outside, hes toilet trained, usually doesn’t chew anything he shouldn’t (he is only 6 months after all), he doesn’t try to steal food off people, no resource guarding, how much more training does he realistically need..?
I think he is well behaved overall 🤷‍♀️

He lives with my dog, he sees my in laws dogs and my neighbours dog sometimes and gets on fine with all of them.
I was hoping to introduce him to my friends dog too but in light of what’s happened and the fact her own dog is very nervous, I won’t be now.
I don’t see why he has to meet strange dogs tbh who may or may not be friendly to him and given he’s so small (4lbs!!) and could easily be killed, I’d rather he not interact.

@PollyRoulllson thank you so much.
I feel like I have a much better understanding now of why this might have happened, very helpful thank you.

I will be sure to increase the distance when walking past other dogs in future and praise him more

Can I ask a completely unrelated question?

For the past week or so, I’ve noticed when the dogs go out to the toilet (my male likes my other dog to go out with him, always has done) he waits and immediately tries to wee over where my other has just been, or is in the process of, weeing.

Anyone know why he’s started doing this?

He cocked his leg to wee from a young age but this is entirely new behaviour.
He has never marked on walks and google says this marking behaviour is a dominant behaviour basically saying he’s top dog over here.

But he’s a shy boy and if anything seems to use my older dog for reassurance eg if he hears a strange noise outside like squirrels or something sometimes he’ll look to my older dog, see that they aren’t bothered and carry on with whatever he was doing before.

I’ve never seen any dominant/bullying behaviour from him to her really.
He’s quite insistent to try and play with her sometimes and gets very frustrated when she ignores him but that’s it.

I think the weeing is pretty normal. I don't really subscribe to dominance theories, I think theyare a bit outdated, but marking is common especially in entire males.

My cocker spaniel is 15 months and has to pee over every wee patch (he's usually runs out of wee halfway through the walk but still tries).

I agree with previous comments about secondary fear stages - mine definitely went through this, it can come and go for a while in adolescence. Minimise exposure to scary stuff, avoid trigger stacking, and be patient - he's still v young. How many teenage boys have excellent social skills, for example

The peeing is just what dogs do - I really wouldn't be concerned about it.

I walk dogs - male and female, neutered and not, and I'd say a good 90% of them do this, especially the younger ones.

You’d rather he didn’t interact. That could be part of the problem.
Dominance theory has been debunked.
You can train a dog yourself. But formal training can be useful.
Training today. We did walking at heel, past another dog and ignoring them. Sit. Walk close. Wait. Stay.

FWIW I think over marking is more complicated than it might first seem. Whilst some studies have suggested it's a male hiding/marking a mate when it's male over female pee, there's clearly more to it than that sometimes and I suspect it might be a conversation type behaviour.

If you've peed somewhere and I pee on top of it, then we're chatting via urine. Where you've peed is already nice and stinky so more likely to attract someone along to sniff it. So if I pee there too, I am more likely to get an audience. If I pee where my mate has peed we've doubled on on stink and are both more likely to get someone along to smell it.

Much like the 'scratch after you poo' behaviour which, imo, is for a different reason in dogs than cats. Cats scratch to bury and so are often very accurate about where thay scratch to achieve that. They are trying to hide their waste. Dogs often move on a few paces then scratch and I think it's a visual marker to top the scent one and help 'advertise' there is a poo here for sniffing .