Confused about the crate

[CBAMumma]

Our puppy is 11 weeks, we’ve had him for 3 weeks and introduced the crate on day 1. The puppy ‘method’ I was following basically said the crate and pen was the area they should be confined to all the time unless you are doing supervised play/training, and you should take puppy out every hour for toilet. Puppy was ok in his crate and settled overnight, if he was out, would choose to take his toys back there. So basically all good.

However puppy has now started to push back on wanting to go/be in his crate. He’s great in the night, but when I return him he chews his kong / chew for 5 mins then barks and vandalises the pen.
I was watching some other puppy training and they imply the puppy should see the crate as the place they want to hangout and have a positive experience, which makes sense. I’m torn as to whether following this first method is now undermining that and puppy will end up hating the crate.

Can anyone help me make sense of how to approach it?

You will receive all sorts of different advice about crates. There isn't a single method that works for every puppy. Having said that, I wouldn't be comfortable confining a puppy to a crate most of the day and night. I have only used a crate as a place for occasional naps (if my pup is overtired but can't settle otherwise) or when he needs to be very briefly contained (just for a few minutes) but never overnight. If he didn't like the crate and showed that by his behaviour, I wouldn't use it at all.

Do you have a pen as well as a crate? It seems so from your OP. How large is the pen?

We used our crate for a safe place for our puppy to go to get away from everything when things got a bit too much. I would not have shut her in all the time and in bring her out for play or training. She would go in there if we were going to be out of the house and overnight for sleeping. The rest of the time she was out with us. No wonder yours doesn't want to go in there.
Try the second crate training you've read about. It's not too late to change.

I think crating is pretty cruel unless for very short periods. I think there’s no point confining a dog there if they hate it!

I don't think there's any need for puppy to be locked in the crate at all times unless playing surely? It should be an optional safe place to retreat it puppy needs to. Our family dogs always slept in their locked crate at night though, their whole lives and did love it.

Maybe I’ve misunderstood, are you trying to confine the puppy to the crate during the day unless there are dedicated play times?

We slowly introduced the crate for night sleeping, I.e. pup was put in the crate and slowly moved away from our bed to downstairs over a period of days. Then the crate was left open so that pup could decide when she wanted to go in and out during the day. She’d be out into the crate to dry off or if we’re eating and she’s bothering toddler but she’s not otherwise kept there in the day. Only at night.

Maybe people who follow the method should get a hamster instead of a dpuppy.

The best thing you can do with the crate is to Chuck it in the bin.

You have the puppy in the crate all day, except for toiletting and play
There is little point in having a dog if that is his life.
I crate trained mine by just having them sleep in it overnight and it was open during the day if they chose to use it for sleeping then.
Once they'd got past the chewing stage, I did away with the crate but both are happy to go in them when they've had to have a stay at the vet.

I should have been a bit clearer, so it’s a crate and pen combined, so the crate is partially covered and has bed in it - it’s actually quite big and then it’s open to a pen which is basically like a hexagonal toddler play pen which has puppy pad, water, toys etc.
it’s in our home office so he’s rarely alone in the day time.

I’m ok with the idea of a crate, our previous fog came to us ‘crate trained’ and he loved to take himself off to his crate, and it was really useful when we were doing building work as we knew he was safe.

The breeder sent the Dr Ian Dunbar method, and when I read it, the principles make sense - the appeal to me is that it is super fast to toilet and chew train in a positive way.
I wasn’t super comfortable with some elements of it, hence my research and post.

I think from the comments on here I will relax the use of the crate/pen. I’ve started to train him to enter the crate on command and most if the time he seems relaxed there, so I’ll build on that.

I do like having the puppy with us, but I need to know he’s safe and ok when we pop out.

We’ve crate trained 3 dogs over the years and before we started I was very unsure. I read so many conflicting messages. But I trusted my DH and for all three it’s been a huge success. We leave the crate open during the day so they can go in and out as they please. The only time we close the crate is when we go to bed or if we need to pop out. Stopped using a crate when they were about 18 months old. If you want to crate train your dog be consistent. Don’t let the anti crate brigade put you off if it’s what you want for your dog and your household. You do you and they can do whatever they’re comfortable with. As long as everyone’s dogs are healthy and happy everyone wins. Good luck 🍀

A crate can be a positive thing, so maybe adapt your method but don't give up.

We no longer have to shut our girl in the crate apart from extreme circumstances - eg recently when moving heavy furniture (she's a devil for getting under our feet and tripping us!) However, the crate is always there as her safe space and she'll often go in there voluntarily during the day for a bit of peace and quiet. Our DS (8) and his friends have been taught that the crate is her space and they are absolutely not to go in it or bother her whilst she's in there.

I have never used a crate(crate just sounds better than cage).I think it is cruel and I think the majority of dogs hate the bloody thing.puppies need a huge amount of time from you and you enjoy this time with your puppy.This gives a strong bond with your dog,which is hugely important for successful training.