Crates and leaving dogs alone

[Dobbyhasnomaster]

So I’ve had my golden puppy since he was 9 weeks old, he’s nearly 14 weeks now. He HATES his crate, especially when left alone, cries and howls like a crazy wolf and very rarely settles down. I’ve tried so hard with the positive association training but it’s not gone well at all, but he is doing well with everything else. I needed to nip out for ten minutes earlier and he was asleep in the living room so I left him shut in there and he was absolutely fine, not a peep as I hid outside to listen. I’ve repeated the experiment this afternoon and left him downstairs whilst I worked upstairs - he would usually bark for half an hour minimum in his crate but he’s settled down after a minute when left alone but not locked in the crate. Is it ok to give up the crate? Or at least stop locking him in? I feel like I’ve failed at the training but if he’s calm outside of it, does it matter? It has me very confused and I’m not sure what to do for the best.

I can’t understand why you use the crate if the dog isn’t doing anything negative /naughty when you don’t use it …

Just stop using it, you don’t use them forever in any case.
I used a crate with my Lab because he loved it, he chewed things, everything, even concrete! He was also a counter surfer. Tore his cruciate resulting in surgery, the crate was literally used to save him from himself! I had dog sitters, dog walkers, dog puzzles, kongs, I had time off work - didn’t know what else to do. He calmed down after a few months.

Our GR never entered the crate we set up so we just left him in a room where there was nothing he could destroy. He never chewed anything anyway and we made sure there was nothing left around for him to chew just in case. He now has run of house when we’re out. We have a camera set up but he just settles in the lounge windowsill.

If he's calm outside of the crate then I'd probably give it up. My 20-week puppy will only sleep in her crate if we leave the door open so we have put a pen around it for nighttime and she's fine. If I want to leave her alone in the day I pop her bed in the hall and shut her in there. She's fine with that! Don't feel bad, not all methods work for all dogs.

Please ditch that crate.I have never crated my dog,she has never destroyed anything.leave the pup in a safe room( it is part of having a puppy to have at least one safe puppy room).your pup is doing fine.it sounds,he manages being left alone fine and you are doing a breat job in just leaving him for very short time in the beginning.Quite a lot of dogs absolutely hate cages.

Would you like to be crated?

No, me neither.

Perhaps your dog doesn't like it either.

Crate manufacturers like it though judging by the price of them.

themuttyprofessor.co.uk/2017/07/20/crate-debate-crate-not-crate/
Think about it, how absurd is it that it’s considered normal to confine an animal to such a small cage for prolonged periods of time, with this space often being just a little larger than their body size? Would it be acceptable to keep a cat like that? How might you feel if you saw a zoo animal kept in such a small cage? In comparison, the majority of hamsters and other rodents live it up in multi-story penthouses. In fact, the only other animals that often suffer this same fate are many horses, guinea pigs and rabbits!
…
Dogs are polyphasic sleepers. This means they sleep in short periods, like to get up and move around as well as changing positions.
Changing surfaces that they sleep on also helps them regulate their temperature.
Therefor, crating dogs goes against their natural way of sleeping and removes all option of them fulfilling this instinctive behaviour.
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I’ve used crates. Big enough for a dog to get up and move around though. Yes with different surfaces.
Just to keep a puppy safe. Whilst I had a shower or overnight whilst it was sleeping. My eldest dog once kicked off big time as a puppy. Because I had forgotten to shut the door!
The problem is when people crate overnight and then leave the dog most of the day in a crate too. Or when people think crate training means shutting a crying puppy in a crate and leaving it.
Many trainers actually recommend at least getting a dog used to a crate. So they can travel safely or not be upset if they’re in a pen at the vets or groomers.

I also view crating as a useful life skill but it must be trained very slowly, gently and used appropriately. If your puppy hates it at 14weeks, you’ve almost definitely gone too fast and forced something somewhere along the line.

As for the polyphasic element, yes, please make sure the crate is the right size and right set up for your dog. Mine is never closed for my dog now and rarely was but he is trained to accept the door shut (so he can travel in the car and be comfortable in the vet ward enclosures).

@BalladOfBarryAndFreda YES!
I would recommend the FB group dog training advice and support for anyone who wants info on how to crate train.

We have a pen for night time because she prefers it, but the crate was never loved much and definitely never shut. When out I let her roam the two safe downstairs rooms and shut the door to the unsafe one. Also a GR.

Every dog is different and will react differently to the same circumstances.Ithink,if you have an ambivilant attitude towards crate,your dog will pick up on it.i have 2 collie girls.one of them wanders a little during the night,the other one sleeps curled up all night.I personally dont like crates and therefore never used one.in the same way that I dont like birds in cages,fish in aquarium,rabbits in hatches.But thats just me.

I had a crate as downstairs open plan lounge kitchen so needed somewhere safe when left him ( was never gone long)

Admit by time was 5 months we had ditched the crate as he was fine being left free to roam.downstairs ( aware not all.dogs are ) .

Fingers crossed my gr puppy is fine in his crate. It is an extra large one and is covered with a pair of thick curtains. It’s like putting a baby in a cot: they know it’s night time. During the day he has free run of downstairs, but goes in crate if I need to go out. There is always some mischief or danger they can get up to as a puppy even if they are in a completely empty room

Can you use a pen? Or is that also a no?

Give up the cage. If he's fine in a closed room. Never used cages, never a problem. They are for precious people who don't actually want a dog wandering in any room in their house/lazy people who can't be bothered to train a dog/unempathetic people who can't imagine what it would be like to be shut in their bathroom all day. Was it Victoria Stillwell who got that family to stay in one room for 6 hours to see what their dog went through? I know you're only talking minutes OP, not hours, but he clearly can't bear being caged, so why do it?

He’s the same in a pen. I think he has issues with being ‘confined’, although he’s ok when he can potter round the living room and dining room. I thought he was upset because he didn’t want to be left alone rather than the confinement, it was an accident really that I found out. I live by myself so it’s been quite the challenge going out to do food shopping, etc! I’ll leave him to wander and see if I can gradually reintroduce the crate positively. I do want him to be able to withstand it incase he has to have time at vets or travelling. Thanks for all the helpful comments.