To think dogs going to a dog social should be...social?

[Tobleroney]

Attended a dog social under a trainer recently with our rescue to see if he wanted to make doggy friends in a controlled environment (i.e. fenced, off-lead paddock). As we thought, he's basically indifferent and more interested in toys, humans and food, ignoring the other dogs, so it confirmed that for us helpfully. However, I was surprised that the other dogs that turned up (it was a very small group) all had dog-to-dog issues and were all there to train in regards to being able to cope with even being in proximity with another dog. None of them were capable of simply having a relaxed, happy play with another dog. Half of the dogs were let off the lead to wander round and the other half had to be kept on the lead in the secure space as their owners said they had history of chasing other dogs. I had this assumption that a social would be a playful, enjoyable event. I see clearly now it's not going to be a positive experience for our dog to be in an enclosed space with reactive dogs. Would you not expect friendly, not dog-reactive dogs, at a dog social??!

I’d expect both but at different times, and it should be clearly stated. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for people who have dogs with behavioural problems to expect that a dog social event run by a professional dog trainer would be suitable to take their reactive dogs to, it does sound like it could be a training session for reactive dogs. I can see why you’d think otherwise though.

Absolutely I would expect that, that's why I don't go to such things as much as I would love to. One of mine is really reactive and i would just worry it would ruin the experience for others. You have just reinforced that belief, sorry it wasn't more positive for you both.

Um... I think the trainer could/should have given you more information.

But - dogs that get on well with other dogs and have good social skills wouldn’t need a social meet up organised by a trainer.. so...no that’s not who I’d expect to be there.

That's interesting a dog social in my mind is an event for well behaved dogs to meet and interact so I wouldn't go.

Dogs who have no issues socialising with other dogs wouldn't be under the help of a trainer to begin with, surely?

You'd expect it, but in reality, people with dogs that are well behaved and social probably aren't going to pay for a special meet up under a trainer's guidance when their dog probably just copes fine at a regular park for free.

So yeah, I do think these sorts of things are going to attract owners with reactive dogs that want to work on the issues. Absolutely nothing wrong with that, mind, but the trainer should have been more upfront about what to expect.

Mmm, it depends.

If it was a session put on especially for you by the trainer in order to socialise your dog, then I'd expect friendly or indifferent dogs.

But if the trainer was holding a group training social, I'd expect a good amount of dog-reactive dogs, because they'd be the dogs the trainer is working with (if that makes sense).

@IDidntFloatUpTheLaganInABubble

That's interesting a dog social in my mind is an event for well behaved dogs to meet and interact so I wouldn't go.

Random meet ups in public places or walks then yeah I’d expect that.

But not in an enclosed field do presumably booked and paid for with limited prebooked spaces run by a trainer. That I’d assume is being done because they’re dogs who aren’t ready to meet in a more informal way.

Not really. Why would you need to take your dog to socialise if it was fine with other dogs? Surely it meets other dogs while out for a walk and socialises then?

Either way a really bad idea. If dogs are anxious and reactive a field full of dogs is the last thing they want.

If dogs are happy and sociable they do not need to meet other dogs to practice this.

@tabulahrasa

Um... I think the trainer could/should have given you more information.

But - dogs that get on well with other dogs and have good social skills wouldn’t need a social meet up organised by a trainer.. so...no that’s not who I’d expect to be there.

This was pretty much what I was going to type

I'd expect people with normal friendly dogs to be socialising at the park rather than in an enclosed field under the supervision of a trainer so yes I'd expect what you describe at a trainers dog social

With my spaniel I'd have assumed they'd be sociable potential playmates in an enclosed, safe, space, but like mine, had terrible recall (quite a long time ago now & not so much advice for blind & hearing impaired dogs). I wouldn't have expected any dogs there that might have hurt her because she approached them.

Many years later though, I have learnt not to assume things and ask lots of questions, about lots of things, not just dogs.

Now, with a different dog, I'd have no issue meeting up with reactive dogs, to help them socialise, but I'd expect the trainer to ask me to go to help out rather than it be sold to me as a good experience for me/my dog.

If I saw a dog social advertised by a trainer I would assume it was training for those who aren't very social. Those without problems socialise in free places like parks

It sounds like the scenario wasn't well explained. While what previous posters have said makes perfect sense when I think about it, my immediate reaction to the term "dog social" was to envisage lots of friendly dogs pratting about together in a field.

FWIW a dog with a good understanding of other dogs body language will likely pick up on the "I'm worried" signals of the other dogs and will be more likely to leave them alone. Mine is like this with other dogs (but is also a bit dog selective), but is totally indifferent towards unknown humans.

The people who really do baffle me are those who go to the local beach on a pleasant day with dogs wearing "nervous" gear. Our local beach well known and is the nearest to a big city, so it is full of dogs in the winter, and a reactive dog is going to have a crap walk. The beaches on either side of it are much quieter!

Likewise the people who take dog reactive dogs to the parts of big parks that attract the most dog walkers.

I just don't understand why people set their reactive dogs up to fail by picking the busiest possible environments.

Mines not fear reactive but he is a bit of a frustrated greeter so he is not good at ignoring other dogs. He will sit and stare, whine and pull/ lunge in an effort to get to see other dogs because he thinks they might play with him. We are trying to train him to sit and watch us for treats instead but this only works if other dogs are quite far away not if they are coming towards us on a narrow path.
The reason we might be walking in a popular place at a popular time is largely convenience. At weekends we have time to drive further afield but on weekdays we are often both expected on conference calls at 9am and don't have time to drive far afield to walk ddog so the local country park it is despite knowing that lots of people are in the same boat doing the same thing. The upside is you get to know people who are regularly there at the same time as you and whether their dog will appreciate a greeting or not.

I just don't understand why people set their reactive dogs up to fail by picking the busiest possible environments.

There could be lots of reasons.

Convenience.
Lack of time.
Training - so the dog is reactive but improving and the only way to keep improving is to continue to decrease the distance between them and other dogs.
Laziness.

Or because that's where they want to go and beaches and parks are for everyone, not just those with perfectly behaved dogs

@PollyRoulllson

Either way a really bad idea. If dogs are anxious and reactive a field full of dogs is the last thing they want.

If dogs are happy and sociable they do not need to meet other dogs to practice this.

Exactly this!

I don't know why 'trainers' continue to promote the idea that these events are a good idea at all.

For the majority of dogs, they're simply not.

Or because that's where they want to go and beaches and parks are for everyone, not just those with perfectly behaved dogs smile

Sure they're for everyone - but why would you pick the busiest version of the parks and beaches when there's a much quieter version a very short walk away?

When my dog was in the worst phase of his reactivity towards certain types of traffic, we lived in inner London. It was hard. I spent an awful lot of time taking detours to avoid busy roads, diving into other people's driveways to avoid a trigger, and literally hiding behind a wall while waiting for the bus to show up - only taking the bus so we could dodge the busiest roads (I didn't drive at the time). I nearly cried when a disused pub garden that allowed me to cross the road at a pedestrian crossing reopened to customers and we could no longer hide in there until the lights changed.

Likewise there was a specific dog that (quite unreasonably) terrified him more than anything else. If I spotted that dog going into the local park - often after a rather stressful walk to get there - I'd turn around and leave, and take a bus to a different park.

Laziness and ignorance are the only likely options. Personally I found having a reactive dog redirecting onto my lower legs, drawing blood on occasion, highly inconvenient. You don't train a dog reactive dog by taking it to an area that is so full of off lead dogs that an unwanted interaction is pretty much guaranteed.

I get having a reactive dog, I really do, but I wouldn't have walked my dog along an A Road if I had any choice at all because it was far too stressful for my dog. Thankfully he can now cope with traffic much better, though he'll never be cured.

“The people who really do baffle me are those who go to the local beach on a pleasant day with dogs wearing "nervous" gear. Our local beach well known and is the nearest to a big city, so it is full of dogs in the winter, and a reactive dog is going to have a crap walk. The beaches on either side of it are much quieter! “

Depends why they’re wearing them though... one of my dog’s litter mates has a jacket thing saying nervous, because well... she’s a bit nervous, lol, she’s interested in other dogs, likes to interact, but she can get a bit overwhelmed with dogs that have bad social skills and are OTT.

So she’s got a jacket on in the hope that people won’t just let their dog’s rush over and then her owner can let her have more positive experiences and limit the negative ones (she’s on a longline in open spaces as well)

I think they’re a bit of a waste of time because usually owners of dogs doing that won’t or can’t recall their dogs anyway, but I understand why she’s doing it.

I could stick one on mine, he’s not nervous or reactive with dogs at all, but he is very worried about strange people - I don’t because people always assume it’s dogs that are the issue and not people.

They’re rescues btw, in case you’re wondering why on earth we’ve littermates with issues.

A social run by a trainer? I would expect all the dogs to have all kinds of issues, hence why they are needing a trainer...

@Tabulahrasa you do make a fair point about the rather vague nature of the "nervous" kit - I've always taken it as a sign to give them a wide berth though. I have seen at least one "nervous" clad dog kick off where in a busy environment though.

If the general public see such gear in a busy environment with a dog that's coping it rather starts to lose its meaning for many people.

I do prefer kit which has a much more direct instruction such as "keep dogs away" "don't touch me" "ask before stroking" or "back off, not keen on other dogs" - there's a business called Saint Roch that does a great range.

Some people seem to have a sense of entitlement that they should be able to go anywhere and do anything with their reactive dog even if it's unrealistic or isn't going to be fun for their dog - and then they expect other people to do quite a bit in order to facilitate it. If I had a child that was scared of clowns and the circus was in town, I wouldn't demand they put on a special clown free show, I'd pick a more suitable outing.

My dog's triggers are my issue to deal with - I just have to deal with it if one of his traffic related triggers pulls up alongside us at a pedestrian crossing - and people would think I was unhinged if I tried to demand otherwise.

Now, I don't let my dog harass on lead dogs - much less those that are clad in nervous gear - but I do think it's the responsibility of reactive dog owners to choose a walk which minimises the number of triggers they're going to see, and to communicate their dogs needs (e.g. if I spot mine's least favourite dog breed - clip him on and give a cheery shout of "sorry, mine really doesn't like X breed so I'm going to keep him away from yours").

I really do under the issues of having a reactive dog, but there's a minority who need to do a bit more to help themselves and their own dog.

I wouldn’t take my dog to this event if it was run by a trainer. I’d expect the do too have issues. I would t use this trainer as bringing a load of reactive/indifferent/nervous dogs together and sticking them in an enclosed space sounds like a recipe for disaster!

Sounds like poor communication on the trainer’s part.

I would assume a social skills training session in a secure environment would include dogs with issues.

A ‘social walk’ with members from the puppy/adolescent classes would be something completely different - ie a walk in local park where they learn to walk nicely alongside each other and be comfortable in each other’s presence, rather than needing to be off lead, running up to, greeting and playing with every dog they see.

A local IMDT trainer to me does the latter with her training groups and it’s one of the reasons I am hoping to go to her when we get our next pup. For me, it would be a useful exercise, as I don’t know many people locally with dogs and they would be dogs that had been through their basic training with a very experienced, well respected IMDT trainer, so a safer bet than just hoping for good experiences in the local park.

“If the general public see such gear in a busy environment with a dog that's coping it rather starts to lose its meaning for many people.”

Interestingly... I tend to assume dogs with gear with writing on aren’t that severe, my last dog was full on dog aggressive reactive with the threshold distance of a football pitch - so if someone could read stuff, their dogs would already be too close.

So actually they make me do nothing different than when I see any on lead dog.

I suspect I’d need a custom one for my current dog - loves dogs, but will run away from you if you try to fuss him, rofl.