Weim v Dobe

[lastqueenofscotland]

I posted a couple of months ago about looking at Doberman’s for myself and DP. Active couple, experienced owners wanting a clever dog, plan to do agility, proper obedience training, showing, maybe a tiny bit of canicross, don’t want success just for a fun and varied life for the dog and to meet like minded owners.
A few people mentioned weims on that thread and was wondering between the two which you’d prefer or would feel most suitable for our lifestyle.

I'd go for a Weimaraner every time, partly because I like the HPR breeds but also because Dobes are health bombs - the breed is riddled with heart disease and has a relatively low life expectancy.

If you do get a Weim, be aware that they are very intelligent dogs and you will need to stretch their brains as well as their bodies - they really benefit from gundog training.

And if you look at Weimaraners, also consider GSPs and Vizslas. You say you want a clever dog, but be careful what you wish for

I'd go for a Dobie. I loved mine. She was a joy to own. Lived to be 12.

Honestly, be careful what you wish for when it comes to wanting an intelligent dog. I see lots of owners saying they want intelligence but they really mean they want biddability.

A dog that is biddable will learn what you want and keep repeating the behaviour. A dog that's intelligent will try and outsmart you (and will often succeed) and they will easily run rings around you if you're not on top of their training.

If you want to do things like agility, obedience training and some showing, then you want a dog that will listen to you, learn what you want quickly and repeat the behaviour when asked. That's biddability, not intelligence.

Intelligence in dogs is hugely overrated IMO

It definately is - especially in pet dogs. My current is the smartest dog I have ever owned (or known).

What this means, in reality, is that he only has to see something happen once and then knows how to apply it himself.

New bin. He watches us press the bar to open it. Later that day we throw the chicken carcass in there. He then pushes the same bar and attempts to retrieve said carcass. Now the bin has to face the wall

See also: opening the doors in the house.

He worked out, at a very early age, that he can change/influence/manipulate the world around him with his actions and he hasn't stopped trying since!

I often say my next dog will be a stupid, lazy one

I have Weimaraners but no experience of Dobermans apart from one a friend had. Weimaraners were bred to hunt big animals independently, which is where you get the strong prey drive, independence and cleverness from. As pets this can translate into dogs that run off and terrorise the neighbour’s cats or chew up the sofa.
Dobermans, I believe were more bred as guard dogs and so are likely to be more territorial and trainable. Both are big, beautiful, active dogs who are very loyal to their owners and you never have a dull moment with . Why not get one of each?

PS my Weimaraner and weim cross are both 14 years old and still going strong. They have been very healthy dogs.

@weaselwords I’d love one of each, DP said no

Although they are both a similar shape, they are bred for very different jobs. I’ve got Vizslas, so not dissimilar to Weims, and grew up with Dobermans.
The Dobermans were lovely, but not that bright bless them. Nice kind dogs in the house but daft as anything and all legs and flailing about for the first 18 months.
They are a guarding breed, and WILL guard. My little sister locked us out of the house once as a small child, our Dobe wouldn’t let my mum climb in through the kitchen window as she was guarding my sister against the ‘intruder’.
My Grandad was knocked over by a car while walking his, and it wouldn’t let the paramedics near him at all, my auntie had to be called to come and get the dog before he could be treated.

Weims are an HPR breed, so they hunt for game with their noses, not their eyes, point at it when they find it (not kill it), flush it, then retrieve it when their owner shoots it.
HPRs need a job, otherwise they will go self employed and find their own job, which may be running off after a scent, or just not doing as they’re told. They are super intelligent and switched on, and can be hard work as puppies. They will chew things, as all gundog breeds are predisposed to do.
They do bark at intruders, but would never have anything to back it up with.
I find my HPRs easier to live with than Dobermans, people aren’t scared of them, they’re easier with recall and they’re a bit smaller. I do like Dobermans as a breed but when I was looking for my next dog I didn’t want the responsibility of a guarding breed, and it is a responsibility.

@bollocksthemess makes a good point re. guarding and the responsibility that comes with owning a breed like that.

I'm a dog walker and once tried to do visits with a guarding breed. Note the word tried.

When the owner was home, the dog was as soft as butter. When I tried to go in alone the dog was cowered, growling and warning me to get the fuck away. If I had been stupid or uneducated enough to approach her further she would have attacked me.

So think very carefully - what would you do if you had guests or a workman visiting? Could you keep them safe?