Buying a trained dog?

[StateOfTheUterus]

I was wondering if anyone had experience of buying a family dog from companies who specialise in training gun dogs. I’ve seen a couple of companies who do this advertised, but don’t know anyone personally who has been down this route. I’ve didn’t grow up with dogs so wondered if this would be more likely to be successful for someone who is new to dog owning? I appreciate the training would need to be continued by me for the rest of the dog’s life. I’m just nervous about starting from scratch - I’d hate to mess it up as not fair on the dog.

I do like a book to refer to - any recommendations? I’d obviously do classes and have a 1:1 trainer as well

@StateOfTheUterus

OK so a leap into the unknown - much like babies!

I’m lucky in that I work part time at home…the company of a dog would be lovely and I could do little bursts of training even when at work and take them out for toileting. But 11 months of housetraining sounds brutal!

Any good resources for training ? Or things to avoid?

This Facebook Page is excellent:

www.facebook.com/groups/374160792599484

Avoid anyone who talks about dominance and who uses aversive training techniques, as they do more harm than good in the long term.

What kind of breed were you looking at getting? Some are generally easier to train than others - if you're a first time owner I would avoid an intelligent breed and go for something that's known for its' biddability - there's a reason why labs and retrievers are so popular amongst new owners - they're biddable, not too smart and bred to work alongside humans.

The problem with going for an "intelligent" breed (like a collie) is that while they're quick to learn, they're also quick to learn how to outsmart you

I think socialization is more important than training when it comes to having a dog that will be living with children , so a puppy that has been born in a home environment and is used to the normal sounds , smells etc of a house is going to be a better adjusted family pet , positive early experiences are key with dogs so I would always prefer to have a pup from 8 weeks so they can be properly socialised and also bond with the family and children .

The waiting list is long but it might be worth looking into a failed guide dog or canine partner dog. They often fail for tiny things that wouldn't affect you as a family dog owner and although working breeds they're less sparky than a workline gun dog. If going for a pup make sure you meet both parents and get some 121s booked in. Some trainers even do pre-puppy visits that can be really useful as a new dog owner. Might be worth checking out the puppy thread to see the highs and lows of owning a pup!

In terms of where to start with resources, Easy Peasy Puppy Squeezy by Steve Mann is a great book for people getting a puppy and Dog Training by KikoPup is a good YouTube channel. Stick to people talking about positive reinforcement training methods and steer clear of 'balanced' trainers who use aversive methods.

😁sounds like my teenager! He’s all about the loophole 😂
I like the look of those border terriers - are they suitable for a first timer like me?

I've seen those dogs in a demonstration at a dog show, they are utterly beautiful and bombproof, and that was in a v busy arena.
I dread to think how much they cost though.

I am going to check out all the resources mentioned and fully take on board everything said about bonding and to expect relapses in skills learned. I’m glad I asked the question though - it has really highlighted some pitfalls which I plan to avoid.

@StateOfTheUterus

😁sounds like my teenager! He’s all about the loophole 😂 I like the look of those border terriers - are they suitable for a first timer like me?

I would say so, they're lovely little dogs. They can a bit dog-reactive but if you socialise them well, there shouldn't be any issues I don't think!

Easy Squeasy book ordered, subscribed to the Kiko pup channel and applied to join Facebook group.
Anyone have opinions on border terriers?

Oops cross post! Thanks @icedcoffees

Just to add if you get a small toy breed type dog they can be trained to use an indoor litter box.

@StateOfTheUterus

Easy Squeasy book ordered, subscribed to the Kiko pup channel and applied to join Facebook group. Anyone have opinions on border terriers?

Brilliant dogs, not too small, not too big huge personalities. Will walk for miles and miles but equally happy to snuggle up on the sofa. Hardy dogs with few health problems.

Another good little starter books is "What's my Dog Thinking?" by Hannah Molloy

Also check out Zak George on YouTube. He's good for absolute beginners and gives a good overview of the steps to raising a puppy (I believe he has entire playlists dedicated to this). He has two books also, which are worth checking out. He also has a free "30 Day Perfect Pup" training programme that takes you through all the basics.

KikoPup is better in that she's more detailed. I prefer her as a trainer. But she can be a bit technical, and her audio quality isn't great. So Zak can be an easier alternative to get started.

You'll learn everything as you go along, also. Just get a little plan in place for when you have a puppy, and the rest you will figure out.

Main things to master early are:

• Sit + lie down
• Wait
• Stay
• Loose lead walking
• House training
• Recall

Then just go from there!

Joining a puppy obedience class will help too.

You're more likely to have an easier time as a first time owner if you go for a small, easygoing breed. Terriers are spunky and fun. Companion breeds like Lhasa Apso etc. can be awesome.

Labs are great family dogs, but can just be so big and boisterous. It's just easier to manage a small dog if you're not too confident. Retrievers are usually softer, less boisterous.

Spaniels are just absolutely loopy and hilarious and fun, but hard work (especially working lines).

Brilliant dogs, not too small, not too big huge personalities. Will walk for miles and miles but equally happy to snuggle up on the sofa. Hardy dogs with few health problems.

All this, but with a caveat of the potential for a massive prey drive that needs to be handled (they are terriers after all). And they need their coat hand stripped (easy enough to learn to do).

Were it not for my need of a working dog if definitely consider the breed through as they are awesome wee dogs.

You're going to love training your own dog OP. It's so rewarding. I'm getting my new pup in a couple of months, can not wait

In the middle of teenage hell I could totally see the temptation of buying a ready trained dog.

But having gone though a lot of hard times with my WCS I am of the opinion that actually it is about the bond and mutual trust between the owner and the dog as others have pointed out. That isn't something that I personally feel you can buy.

I second the Facebook group linked above (www.facebook.com/groups/374160792599484/?ref=share)

Their premium puppy group (small monthly donation to charity) was absolutely invaluable for the first few months.

They have a pre-puppy group too, where you ask lots of questions & they have guides on different elements of training & how to find a good trainer.

Definitely think carefully about breed - we have a cocker spaniel, he's fab but gundogs have specific traits and tendencies towards retrieving/carrying things so we had to do a lot of work around stealing items and we had some emerging resource guarding behaviours which took careful management. He's 14 months now and turning into a really lovely dog but you do need to continue reinforcing things intermittently.

I'd think carefully about managing a puppy with a 5 year old too. All puppies are bitey twats for a bit, some worse than others, so I'd think about how you'd manage keeping them separate at first (we used a baby playpen that turned into a room divider to keep puppy and cats separate, for example, & we still have a stairgate).

I’m not in a rush, so if having a 5 year old is too young I can hang on and do the research for a few years. But I like the idea of my kids growing up with a dog as I never had that. What’s the perfect age for a child to be around a dog?

@StateOfTheUterus

I’m not in a rush, so if having a 5 year old is too young I can hang on and do the research for a few years. But I like the idea of my kids growing up with a dog as I never had that. What’s the perfect age for a child to be around a dog?

It depends on the child and how much management you can do. Odeally they need to be able to calmly remove themselves or redirect to a chew toy if puppy gets bitey - with no screaming or crying - or you need to be keeping separate apart from when you are monitoring extremely closely and can remove child or puppy to behind a barrier. They should be able to understand that toys left on the floor or offered to the puppy are likely to be chewed - or you need to be clearing up and keeping everything out of reach. They should to be able to follow rules - for example, no feeding the dog at the table or don't try to take a stolen toy out of the dogs mouth. Depending on the size of breed you get too - a big bouncy puppy could knock a child over, so again, it's how much you can manage that. Obviously you don't leave kids alone with a dog, but it's more the difference between kid and dog in kitchen while you prep veg vs having them both within arms reach & with your full attention, if that makes sense? I didn't have my own dog as a child but my nan got a great dane puppy when I was 9 (one of a number she had over the years) & it was brilliant, I loved "helping" train her when I visited as I could really get involved. The experience of raising my current dog, I don't think I would have enjoyed as a young child, as he was a bitey stealing twat

@AwkwardPaws27 that is really helpful advice. My DD is very calm and doesn’t get flustered by friends dogs that jump up - but she would be sad if any of her beloved teddies got chewed! I can see though that she’d actually enjoy the puppy training more if she’s a bit older - age 9/10 sounds ideal.

Honestly, you can do it yourself. It takes consistency and daily practice but they pick it up so fast. Echo what others said about working line gundogs. A show cocker or lab tends to be more laid back and easygoing.

We used the Steve Mann book too, it's fantastic. Also DTAS on Facebook and kikopup. Did Kennel Club classes with a super training school who are positive training only.

Just hitting the teenage months with ours but he's actually bloody brilliant in the house and out. And doing the work has meant he has a lovely bond with the family. He's very much part of our "pack".

My kids are 8.5 and 12 and able to help and can do back turning on biting, redirection etc. Helps massively.

StateoftheUterus we also thought about buying a ready-trained gundog. Prices are very high, I think at least 4-6k for a quality dog.

We were very nervous that, as beginners, we'd not cope with the demands of a puppy and training. However, we took the advice of my cousin (a gundog trainer) and various other enthusiasts of working breeds that there's nothing like the bond you share with a dog you've had from a pup, and took the plunge.

Anyhow, a year later, we have a scrummy adolescent Labrador lazing on the sofa, and it has been an absolute joy. Kids are 10 and 12 and it is wonderful to see the love they have for him (they are terrible dog trainers though, highly inconsistent and just lob ham at him for doing practically nothing!). He is sometimes hard work, and I've stopped counting the things he's chewed up. But we have trained him ourselves (with help from puppy classes and Zoom classes when that wasn't possible) and they are absolutely right about the depth of the bond. He's now a polite and friendly chap who wants to please.

We always imagined we were capable of the bare minimum of training but now DDog enjoys Saturday gundog puppy sessions with DH and Sunday agility beginners sessions with me and DS, who has loved learning to run with him. He loves the kids, they love him and it's all good. We couldn't wish for a better dog (well, perhaps one that doesn't roll in fox shit and steal cheese....)

We found the Pupp Squeezy books helpful and if you get a gundog, the Pet Gundog Puppy book is great. We also swear by Total Recall, and our dog's recall is now almost there.

Puppies are a nightmare at times, but it is worth it in the end. Good Luck!

@GuyFawkesDay and @OompaLumpaLabrador - thank you so much for the advice. I’m now firmly of the mind to wait until DD is at least 8 before taking on a puppy and to research best breed temperament for first time dog owners.

If you have a shortlist of breeds you can go to Crufts where they have a discover dogs section with owners and dogs for you to meet.