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The doghouse

If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

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Original poster

DDog and liver problems / end of life

47 replies

MilsDogMom · 13/12/2021 19:06

Hi all

A bit of background - My DDog had a suspected stroke a few months ago, she recovered well and was able to walk by the time we arrived at the emergency vets. Vets weren’t concerned, said she is very healthy and ‘everything about her is perfect’ - just said if it happens again come back.

She had another yesterday but vets ruled out a stroke but suspected vestibular syndrome, she is only having mild fits so not to worry as anything they can do is so intrusive and might not yield any results. He said DDog was the picture of health (she’s nearly 10) so we were happy enough to take his advice, although I did ask for blood tests as her gums have been pale for around a week, he said he wasn’t worried about that and to see how she is. Long story short, we had the blood test and got the results a few hours later.

The results were high liver enzymes and he wanted her back today for an ultrasound and scan. The results aren’t good and she has a smooth rim but nodule centre and it’s liver disease. Vets have recommended not doing biopsy’s etc as she is older and it’s obviously well progressed and to get a definitive answer on what type of liver disease (or cancer but there were no visible masses) it is quite intrusive and long.

We are to go back in 3 weeks and redo bloods to see if there is any improvements as she is on supplements, different diet etc. Basically we are to wait and see when she goes downhill and make the call.

I’m so shocked, she has (this year aside) never been to the vets for anything other than vaccinations and spaying. She is a sensitive soul and normally makes us well aware when she isn’t feeling well, we had nothing apart from the first suspected stroke which she was up and running about within the hour. She was our first dog, we now have 3 and she is leader of the pack, she’s been with us for our first house, new jobs, our first child. I’m absolutely gutted and my DP and her are so bonded.

Just wondering if anyone has ever been through similar and can advise us on anything else we can be doing or if we should at least try and do a biopsy to see if it’s potentially treatable? I don’t want her to suffer or spend every other day at the vets, her quality of life is my priority and she wouldn’t cope well.

Thanks for reading

OP posts:

Santahatesbraisedcabbage · 13/12/2021 19:13

Our 10 yo rottweiler had a huge mammary tumour in 2019. Cost us 2 k. Not insured as she had never been to a vet apart from jabs for that 10 years!! Last year her behaviour changed and vet said most likely a brain tumour.. We chose not to put her through more tests as the chances of surgery being an option in practice were nigh on nil. We gave her 2 fab weeks and had her pts... She had 3 episodes of attacking our other ddogs and we decided that we couldn't risk the dc or indeed one of our ddogs being fatally injured.. The guilt is huge. But if she had killed someone or a ddog would have been worse to live with.

Orarewedancer · 13/12/2021 19:21

Vet here. I wouldn't put my 10 year old dog through biopsies etc. as I'm not convinced it changes the end result. Management with liver supplements, diet etc is usually the way forward. I have referred some dogs for liver cancer who have had parts of their liver removed and do ok (though this has to be specific types of cancer of course) but again I don't think I'd do it for my own elderly pet. Regular bloods (every few months perhaps), weight checks and general monitoring of life at home seems a perfectly reasonable plan.

Original poster

MilsDogMom · 13/12/2021 19:22

thanks for your reply @Santahatesbraisedcabbage

Her behaviour has changed over the last few weeks, she is less tolerable of the other dogs and a bit scrappy with them. We have a DS and since her last stroke have mostly separated them as she isn’t too keen on kids anyway, prefers to lay in sun and be treated like the princess she thinks she is. She is the most highly strung dog I’ve ever met.

Millie is insured but the vets recommendation is to not proceed, I’m assuming that means the liver disease is well progressed. She said her bloody results for the liver were ‘off the chart’.

I’m guessing it’s best to let her enjoy her last few weeks than upset her but she’s been with us since she 6 weeks old, far too early I know but someone was giving them all away and my friend took them to find them good homes. My dad has her DB from another litter (don’t get me started).

OP posts:

Original poster

MilsDogMom · 13/12/2021 19:28

@Orarewedancer

Thank you so much, I think you’re right. It is hard to swallow but we just want what’s best for her and to hear that’s the right thing to do for her (again) is so reassuring.

They have asked for blood tests to be repeated in 3 weeks and if the results haven’t got better have recommended PTS soon after, I’m assuming that is because is it quite severe?

She has no outward signs of cancer/ liver disease - all of the symptoms I’ve read she has none of, so definitely quite a shock.

OP posts:

Orarewedancer · 13/12/2021 19:36

Ah yes if they are off the charts and looking at rechecking them in a few weeks then unfortunately it's probably more advanced :( in some ways it's good to think she hasn't suffered for a long time with the clinical symptoms, though it of course makes it more of a shock and difficult to wrap your head around. I'm so sorry for you and your girl, it's never easy when they become unwell.

Santahatesbraisedcabbage · 13/12/2021 19:44

We took ours for fish and chips!! And took lots of photos on her last run on the beach. Can't look at them yet and it was Feb last year! She had 2 pancakes with Nutella - it was Shrove Tuesday... And she was sedated first (quick jab from behind and the vet left the room) . Def recommend that. She fell asleep on us before the vet was in the room to put the pts meds in. And we spent ages after with her. We weren't rushed in any way. Made me wonder why some humans can't go with the same dignity...

Original poster

MilsDogMom · 13/12/2021 19:47

@Orarewedancer

Thank you so much, me and DP are really grateful for your replies. We’re grateful she’s still here and will hopefully enjoy a last Christmas and new year together. She is a sensitive sally so hopefully we will know when the right time is for her.

So very much appreciated x

OP posts:

Original poster

MilsDogMom · 13/12/2021 19:51

@Santahatesbraisedcabbage

That’s so lovely and sad all in one. She will definitely be spoilt in her last few weeks, that I do know.

We were thinking if it came to PTS we would do it at home? More for the other dogs than us but it’s not something I’ve looked into and who knows if it will even be allowed when the time may come with COVID. I hope it’s something we can talk about but right now it is so raw and my DP is her chosen human so he is so upset and partly in denial I think.

OP posts:

Santahatesbraisedcabbage · 13/12/2021 20:02

As a dc our ddog was pts at home. The vet took her away which imo was bloody awful. We didn't have a garden to bury her in.

Our ddog last year went to the pet crem and we got ashes back. And paw prints and some fur..

Santahatesbraisedcabbage · 13/12/2021 20:02

BackBackBack · 13/12/2021 20:06

Another one echoing that its quality of life. I'm just back from having one of ours PTS as we found an issue last week and it sadly progressed very suddenly over the last 24 hours. Lots of crying but I know we made the right call and she was spoiled rotten for the last week of her life. Slipped away peacefully in my arms which was the kindest ending I could give her.

Original poster

MilsDogMom · 13/12/2021 20:16

@Santahatesbraisedcabbage

Not something I’d even thought about, we have a garden but not sure what we’d do. I think I will let DP decide on that. I never thought it would happen I guess, but it’s definitely something to think about.

@BackBackBack so sorry to hear about your boy. I’ll definitely think about her quality of life, something we’re both mindful of is how she feels. With the other dogs we know she’d hate to not be able to play or go on walks. She has barely eaten for 2 days but she has been in and out of the vets so we are going to give her a day or two to recover and see where she is. I’d hate to think of her truly miserable.

Currently sat on the sofa with the fire on, all 3 snoozing next to me peacefully. She will be upstairs with us tonight if she’ll do it, she’s normally in a dog sandwich all squished on one bed even though they have one each!

OP posts:

Santahatesbraisedcabbage · 13/12/2021 20:18

Be prepared for the guilt to keep hitting op. Me and dh said out loud is this us agreeing she is getting dangerous and that we need to make the appointment... Took 2 weeks to let it sink in. She was under such supervision my head hurt.

BackBackBack · 13/12/2021 20:23

OP you'll know when it's time. Ours had a Fabulous week of being spoiled like crazy and eating loads of treats. It was the last 24 hours that we saw a deterioration and we'd already got the vet in standby, so the end was very organised and peaceful, which is what we wanted.

MunroBagger · 13/12/2021 20:42

No advice OP but thought I’d reply as I’m currently going through the same thing. My 13 year old dog had a suspected stroke but was back on her feet and walking by the time we got to the vet. When it happened again the vet took blood tests which showed high liver enzymes. No sign of any tumours on the ultrasound. Vet has tried various medications over the past 4 months or so but they haven’t helped. The only option we have left is a biopsy which we have decided not to put her through. At the last blood test her enzymes were AP4200 and ALT 560. We had a bit of a wobble the other morning when she couldn’t get up and was falling to one side. 15 minutes later she was running about mad. We are just taking one day at a time. Today she was running about daft in the park and walked for over an hour.

icedcoffees · 13/12/2021 21:16

Hi OP.

I recently went through similar with a dog I walked. He was 13 and had a few stroke-like episodes which turned out to be Vestibular Disease. When he was in the vets, he was diagnosed with stage 3 liver disease.

The owners switched him to a special food but sadly he had several more episodes (each progressively worse than the last) and the decision was made to have him PTS within three weeks of his original diagnosis. His last weeks were filled with walks, fuss, treats and cuddles and he went before he had deteriorated to a point where he suffered.

It was heartbreaking for everyone but it was absolutely the right thing to do. I wish you luck with your lovely girl

Original poster

MilsDogMom · 13/12/2021 21:20

@MunroBagger that is so similar to Millie. She was fine after her first suspected stroke, this one has definitely hit her a little harder but could partly be the stress of being back at the vets today for more tests/ scans.

I pushed for bloods as her gums were pale, the vet didn’t think they were necessary. I’m so glad I did as we wouldn’t of know how much she really was in pain. I’m not in any way blaming the vets, all her symptoms matched a stroke and vestibular syndrome and they both said she is so fit and healthy they wouldn’t assume anything else/ more serious. I think it shows how much dogs try to hide it as until yesterday she was the same dog she has always been excluding the odd day of being a tiny bit mopey.

We don’t have the exact results but I think I might ring tomorrow and ask for them so I can see myself when we take her back for her next lot of bloods what the difference is. Do you have an official diagnosis or just liver disease?

We have definitely made the decision not to do a biopsy or further intrusive tests on her. She can just rest, enjoy the sofa and walks until she lets us know it’s her time.

I’m very sorry about your DDog x

OP posts:

MunroBagger · 13/12/2021 22:49

Thank you. We don’t have an official diagnosis beyond liver disease. They said they would need to do a biopsy which would require hospitalisation for an accurate diagnosis. The AP result of 4200 should be between 7 and 173 so is very high. Like you the blood tests were only done at my insistence. She always seemed to recover just as we were pulling into the vets carpark and she was presenting as a very fit and healthy dog. I hope you get to enjoy some nice walks and cuddles with Millie over the festive season.

Original poster

MilsDogMom · 13/12/2021 23:02

@icedcoffees

Thank you so much, she is definitely not herself but I’m really hoping we have a few weeks left with her. But of course will do whatever she needs.

@MunroBagger our stories are almost identical, I’m glad we both got to the bottom of it though for DDogs sake. I hope you do too with your boy x

OP posts:

LuluBlakey1 · 13/12/2021 23:11

I have had a dog and cat, both elderly, who have died with liver disease. However, both have been able to be managed through diet and some medication for about a year before the time came when they were very badly affected and we had to have them PTS. Infact, the cat died because of something else, it wasn't the liver disease that made her so ill at the end.
Did the vet say just a couple of weeks?
It's a horrible time and I am so sorry your dog is ill.

Original poster

MilsDogMom · 14/12/2021 07:31

@LuluBlakey1 the vet said to bring her back in 3 weeks for more blood tests, if the tests showed no improvement or worsening then it’s time to go on quality of life.

She instructed us on diet but also said it’s really important that she eats as if she doesn’t then we obviously have to think about what’s best for her. So last night she managed a few mouthfuls of pulled pork I’d done, this morning she wouldn’t touch it. Going to have to rethink!

OP posts:

Original poster

MilsDogMom · 15/12/2021 12:12

Hi all, just a little update.

Millie seems to be going downhill quite quickly.

She has had orange diarrhoea with blood streaks in since yesterday evening, has gone in the house overnight and she has hasn’t done that even ill for over 9 years. Rang the vets and she suggested to take her off the liver supplements (she’s only had 1) but that likely it isn’t a side effect of those anyway.

Don’t know what to do for the best as she is still getting up and doesn’t seem too disorientated or stressed. My DP had said if she starts to have anymore symptoms of liver failure he would like to PTS as he thinks to see her suffering at all would be heartbreaking for her and us. She has given us a great nearly 10 years and we owe her a pain free end x

OP posts:

MilsDogMom · 15/12/2021 12:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BackBackBack · 15/12/2021 18:05

Liver failure can escalate quickly. My advice would be to get her seen by the vet asap if you haven't done so already.

If you can afford to, then get them to re-run her bloods as they should be able to tell if her liver function is declining. If it is then I would PTS.

MunroBagger · 15/12/2021 18:43

It’s so hard. How has she been this afternoon?

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