Dog has bitten her walker

safefacespace · 05/12/2021 00:04

Have you not trained her to give/leave? If not why?

AnnieSnap · 05/12/2021 00:11

You need to train her to ‘leave’. The easiest way I have found to do this is to start by getting the dog used to you picking up their food bowl when they are eating, then giving it straight back. I start that by adding something tasty to the bowl whilst they are eating, then after a few times of doing this, move the bowl sideways a little to put the treat in. When they are relaxed with that pick it up, pop whatever in in and put it down. After that move on to other things, a treat, a toy etc.

Original poster

Awkwardusername · 05/12/2021 00:16

@AnnieSnap

You need to train her to ‘leave’. The easiest way I have found to do this is to start by getting the dog used to you picking up their food bowl when they are eating, then giving it straight back. I start that by adding something tasty to the bowl whilst they are eating, then after a few times of doing this, move the bowl sideways a little to put the treat in. When they are relaxed with that pick it up, pop whatever in in and put it down. After that move on to other things, a treat, a toy etc.

Yep, she’s a usually okay at with things she’s familiar with, I think new things are the problem

OP posts:

RunningFromInsanity · 05/12/2021 00:54

Resource guarding is a lot different to just training a leave.
I would at least have one session with a behaviourist as it can be pretty serious if left unchecked.

lingus · 05/12/2021 08:32

@safefacespace

Have you not trained her to give/leave? If not why?

Why be so passive aggressive! How does that help the OP

OP if your dog has some however small slight guarding issues do not teach a leave it or drop as suggested above.

Best way is to walk up to your dog when they have nothing in their mouth and give them a treat and say "thank you" give the treat.

Do this enough times you can then approach when they have something in their mouth say thank you the dog drops the item to eat the treat. No hassle no frustration for you or the dog.

icedcoffees · 05/12/2021 08:32

Training a "leave" command is all well and good, but if a dog has found something super valuable (to them) they can become very possessive over it - especially if he was being walked in a group with other dogs. Dogs can also behave very differently outside compared to at home.

A dog I was walking once found a rotten deer leg in the woods. Luckily it was long enough that I could safely grab the other end and get it off him but I dread to think what could have happened if it was something smaller.

I don't think a one-off incident necessarily needs help from a behaviourist but I think you need a plan in place when it comes to managing the behaviour for the walker in the future as he may now have insurance issues if he's walking a dog that's a known biter.

I suspect his insurance would tell him that the dog needs to be muzzled and on a lead at all times when in his care - I know mine is very strict when it comes to walking dogs that bite, no matter what the circumstances.

Is the dog muzzle trained?

lingus · 05/12/2021 08:33

Dont pick up a food bowl from any dog ever.

It is much better to approach the food bowl and put a great high value treat into the bowl. Your dog will then always be happy to have people approaching them and will have no need to guard food or any item

Simonjt · 05/12/2021 08:36

@AnnieSnap

You need to train her to ‘leave’. The easiest way I have found to do this is to start by getting the dog used to you picking up their food bowl when they are eating, then giving it straight back. I start that by adding something tasty to the bowl whilst they are eating, then after a few times of doing this, move the bowl sideways a little to put the treat in. When they are relaxed with that pick it up, pop whatever in in and put it down. After that move on to other things, a treat, a toy etc.

Removing a good bowl causes guarding in a lot of dogs, by removing their bowl you’re teaching them to protect their food.

PoinsettaPrincess · 05/12/2021 08:43

@AnnieSnap

You need to train her to ‘leave’. The easiest way I have found to do this is to start by getting the dog used to you picking up their food bowl when they are eating, then giving it straight back. I start that by adding something tasty to the bowl whilst they are eating, then after a few times of doing this, move the bowl sideways a little to put the treat in. When they are relaxed with that pick it up, pop whatever in in and put it down. After that move on to other things, a treat, a toy etc.

Please don’t do this. If you’re worried about resource guarding OP then book an appointment with a qualified behaviourist. I wouldn’t like the fact that she’s growling at you over items at home tbh.

Prescottdanni123 · 05/12/2021 08:51

@AnnieSnap

You need to train her to ‘leave’. The easiest way I have found to do this is to start by getting the dog used to you picking up their food bowl when they are eating, then giving it straight back. I start that by adding something tasty to the bowl whilst they are eating, then after a few times of doing this, move the bowl sideways a little to put the treat in. When they are relaxed with that pick it up, pop whatever in in and put it down. After that move on to other things, a treat, a toy etc.

Don't do this. It is far more likely to create problems than fix any.

Original poster

Awkwardusername · 05/12/2021 09:38

Oh dear, I’m even more confused now haha!
She’s not muzzle trained, and I asked the walker about insurance implications and he basically said there were none as the situation “caught [him] off guard”? He’s said he’ll reduce her group size a bit next week but that’s it! He also said she normally brings him a toy (or a stray treat she’s found!) when he arrives and lets him take it; she does the same with my partner and I and did it with my sister when she popped in once too.

We’ve been working on giving her something she’d deem to be high value, exchanging it for a treat and taking it away but letting her see that we have it. When we then give it back, she’s no longer possessive at all and happy to share (so it’s ours, not hers). That’s all well and good at home but I’m not sure how we can train her seaweed and someone else’s leftover lunch aren’t hers!

Thanks for all of the replies so far though

OP posts:

icedcoffees · 05/12/2021 09:47

I wouldn't be very happy with a known resource guarder like that being walked in a big group - how many dogs does the walker have with him at once? Could he handle them all if a fight broke out or he became badly injured?

One or two others may be manageable but my concern would be that she finds something mega valuable and tries to guard it from both the walker and the other dogs and one of the dogs gets hurt - that's when you could have trouble on your hands, especially as the dog now has a bite history. The walkers insurance may not cover the vet bills as he chose to continue to walk a dog that bites without taking precautions like solo walks, lead and muzzle.

My own policy as a dog walker is (I'm sorry to say) that I won't take dogs that bite unless they are muzzled and on the lead.

My insurance states that if a dog bites in my care (the circumstances are irrelevant) they will pay out, but if that same dog ever goes on to do it again, they won't pay out on the future claims as (in their eyes) it would be my fault for walking a known biter without taking adequate precautions.

Janeandjohnny · 05/12/2021 10:04

@Awkwardusername

Walker has been absolutely amazing about it; dog (large breed, 8 months old) had something in her mouth she shouldn’t have, walker attempted to exchange and dog bit him! We’re absolutely horrified.

At home, she can be a bit possessive but she’s never bitten; if we give her a new toy or a new treat, if we go to her bed (where she’ll take anything we give her), she’ll let us stroke her etc but if she thinks we’re trying to take whatever she has, she’ll growl, but when exchanged for a high value treat she’s no problem and will drop whatever she has straight away.

We asked the walker (very experienced!) for recommendations RE: behaviourist and he said he didn’t think we needed one just yet, but I’m now terrified we have an aggressive, possessive dog who needs help!

Any advice would be hugely appreciated (first time dog owners!). Thank you!

Ok @Awkwardusername Its 8 months old so pushing boundaries. It has learned that it needs to guard its resources. Not sure why walker was doing an exchange? Was it important to have it back? I have a fair bot of dog experience and never train leave at this age as its very different to possessiveness and I also decide if a trade is really necessary. Your fundamental mistake is going to her bed and sitting with her there. NEVER go to her bed - always ask her to come to you. Her bed is her safe space and you are going in there, touching her and interfering, not sure why you are giving a toy and then trading?? Can she not have to toy?? If she is growling you a missing all the other signs: lip licking, looking away, whites of eyes, yawning. Stop swapping stuff, give her toys for keeps and renove when she is out, stop going to her bed and touching her. Is she a GSD by any chance?

Janeandjohnny · 05/12/2021 10:06

@AnnieSnap

You need to train her to ‘leave’. The easiest way I have found to do this is to start by getting the dog used to you picking up their food bowl when they are eating, then giving it straight back. I start that by adding something tasty to the bowl whilst they are eating, then after a few times of doing this, move the bowl sideways a little to put the treat in. When they are relaxed with that pick it up, pop whatever in in and put it down. After that move on to other things, a treat, a toy etc.

Do not do this. Leave works with older dogs and does not work with possession at this point. You will set up conflict if you push for leave now.

gogohm · 05/12/2021 10:10

I would listen to your dog walker assuming they are experienced. Most dogs can refuse to give something up and the human comes off worse - in my case removing chicken bones found in the park ended up with him biting me, but he knew he was wrong and was loving and apologetic (ok humanising but you can tell). This is very different to a dog resource guarding their dinner at home, toys etc. Keep an eye but don't worry yourself too much

Original poster

Awkwardusername · 05/12/2021 10:11

The dog had seaweed in her mouth, so he was trying to stop her eating it I believe!
That’s really helpful advice, thank you so much (yes, she’s a GSD!).

So if we’re out and about and shes, for example, eating some seaweed or similar, how do we get it off her? Sorry if I’m being stupid!

OP posts:

Original poster

Awkwardusername · 05/12/2021 10:12

@gogohm

I would listen to your dog walker assuming they are experienced. Most dogs can refuse to give something up and the human comes off worse - in my case removing chicken bones found in the park ended up with him biting me, but he knew he was wrong and was loving and apologetic (ok humanising but you can tell). This is very different to a dog resource guarding their dinner at home, toys etc. Keep an eye but don't worry yourself too much

The walker came over yesterday evening to check she was okay because she “seemed so upset” afterwards! I think you can tell too!

OP posts:

ikeepseeingit · 05/12/2021 10:14

I think you might need to pay for a good behaviourist to come out to you at this point OP. I can see you’ve tried your best, but it’s not easy to train a dog! Getting some help in now will reduce the chances of this ever happening again, and will take out the guess work of what method of training to use.

Hodl · 05/12/2021 10:14

We have a 5yo OES who is normally the most placid boy. However, no one can come near me without him barking, even if its just DH or the DC for a hug etc. Have tried lots of things but nothing has worked.

gogohm · 05/12/2021 10:16

Seaweed ... that's a different one! My ddog doesn't do greens, right little boy

(Christmas he will pick out individual Brussel leaves if you mash up leftovers together)

IAAP · 05/12/2021 10:21

@lingus

Dont pick up a food bowl from any dog ever.

It is much better to approach the food bowl and put a great high value treat into the bowl. Your dog will then always be happy to have people approaching them and will have no need to guard food or any item

I disagree. My dogs are taught leave, stop and give.

None of them involve a reward other then praise and cuddles -I VE trained every dog to wait for their bowl and stop on command and wait otherwise it’s a free for all. Never punished them - they want affection and praise and all work hard for it

Evenstar · 05/12/2021 10:21

The GSD’s I have had in the past would always have given me anything I wanted to take off them, however they are very prone to attaching to one particular person in my experience. I wonder if she doesn’t see the dog walker as part of her family and if she is being walked in a group that might encourage resource guarding due to their presence.

I think a session with a behaviourist to get an opinion on what happened would be really worthwhile, especially as you are new to dog ownership. You don’t want this behaviour to continue or escalate with a large breed dog, especially a GSD as sadly many people are scared of them.

Janeandjohnny · 05/12/2021 10:21

@Awkwardusername

The dog had seaweed in her mouth, so he was trying to stop her eating it I believe! That’s really helpful advice, thank you so much (yes, she’s a GSD!).

So if we’re out and about and shes, for example, eating some seaweed or similar, how do we get it off her? Sorry if I’m being stupid!

I suspected it was a GSD! Ok, thats a breed that you do not want to have being possessive. I would not care about seaweed, its also in a group of dogs which many GSD find stressful as they can often be a one man kinda dog. So I would not set myself up for failure by battling for it back. I would ignore the seaweed- she knows you want it so wont want to give up especially at that age. I would highly recommend puppy classes as that breed need constant updating. Train for muzzle in case you need it. Dont go to her bed. Dont train for swapping toys for treats as GSD are a herding protection job so they do not give up or want to give up easily. Dont take away food bowls. Dont punish possessiveness. Learn to read her uncomfortable times. I highly recommend tracking if you can do it with her - for treats in woodlands etc. Sorry for the long post!

Floralnomad · 05/12/2021 10:49

I really wouldn’t be stressed about this , as the walker has said not to get a behaviourist and just keep an eye on it it would imply to me that he feels it was partly his fault .

icedcoffees · 05/12/2021 10:56

@Awkwardusername

The dog had seaweed in her mouth, so he was trying to stop her eating it I believe! That’s really helpful advice, thank you so much (yes, she’s a GSD!).

So if we’re out and about and shes, for example, eating some seaweed or similar, how do we get it off her? Sorry if I’m being stupid!

I wouldn't want to recommend anything as you now have a dog with a bite history and a history of guarding (both in the home and out of it). All advice here, while well-meaning, has the potential to be dangerous as the posters don't know your dog and can't see her body language or the intricacies of the situation.

Please get help from a behaviourist and make sure they're IMDT registered and accredited.

When I first replied, I missed the fact that she growls at you over items in the home, and that this has now escalated to biting her dog walker.

While the "leave" command is a fantastic command to have, it needs to be taught early on and to a dog that has never shown signs of guarding. Yours has, and by trying to teach her to "leave" now, you could end up with her behaviour escalating and someone could get badly hurt. GSD's are big, strong dogs and you don't want to be on the receiving end of a bite from one of them.