Growling pup - should I be worried?

[3AndADog]

Cockerpoo pup is 6 months old. Lovely cuddly mad thing. Lots of Typical annoying puppy behaviour but we’re doing lots of training and seem to be getting there. Mouthing drives me up the wall.
This evening DH was sat with her on the sofa curled up and stroking her. I came and joined them (she’s hyper attached to me) and started stroking her too. She was mouthing me and trying to get me to play, but DH was withdrawing his hand and attention to get her to stop. As was I. She growled at us, twice - her body remained relaxed and she didn’t jump up or anything - it was a short quiet growl but we did see her teeth. I wondered if she was angry at SH for interfering with me and her, as I said she’s super attached to me and I’m worried she might be getting possessive - although this is the first time I’ve seen her growl in this situation. DH thinks she was growling for more strokes a give me more affection.

Should I be concerned about this? I can’t help panicking that it was a first sign of aggression. First time dog owner here.

Thanks

If you don't want her on the sofa and cannot stand in front of it all day long (obv!) then I think you need to make it physically inaccessible. Cushions up and chairs or stools along it to block it off. Won't be attractive or convenient though. I used to sit on the floor with my dog, still do at times.
I would simultaneously start teaching her to stay in her bed or crate. This will be much easier after a walk and a meal so get her out early, (physical work, brain work, playtime) and fed early if possible. I used to get mine to chill in the garden for a while before letting him indoors.
I would simply remove the dog from the area/room/ house if she's doing ridiculous and unwanted behaviours like jumping at the counters. A harness around the house with a foot of lead clipped on might help.

Has she had her first season yet? Our cocker was far mor anxious, barky and growly when she had her season. Could be her hormones are bothering her. Also our vet told us that a dog will have the same hormones for the same length of time as if they were pregnant. So around 9 weeks.

I’ve tried putting her on a lead tied to the table when she’s being crazy, but she just barks the whole time.

No season yet, I thought she was still a bit young? Almost 6 months.

I haven’t been able to teach 4 paws on the floor and I don’t really know how. Tbh every time she jumps up I say down, when she is down I say down and reward her. Doesn’t seem to be working at all.

It's not working because you're giving her attention for jumping up (by saying down). You need to totally ignore her - fold your arms, turn away so you're not making eye contact and say nothing until all her paws are on the floor, then you give the command and reward her.

Haven’t been able to teach settle either. If I throw a treat at her in her bed she jumps up and starts looking for more.

Okay, so in this scenario the treats are too exciting, so I would start to give her the command while she's settling there already, if that makes sense.

So, when she chooses to lie on her bed, say "settle - good girl". Eventually you'll be able to tell her to settle and she'll go to her bed automatically. It's much easier to capture a natural behaviour than it is to try and train it on your terms.

If you're concerned about being snappy, the best advice I was given by my trainer for my old cavoodle during puppy school, was to train around the mouth while young.

Including giving a (raw) chicken neck or wing, and taking it out of the pup's mouth after a couple of minutes. Also when grooming touch around their mouth.

Any territorial behaviour needs to be nipped in the bud. Again food related, practice giving the dog their food, then a firm stop and take the food away.

Any non playful growling or barking is an immediate time out - into a room for a couple of minutes with the door closed. Trainer advised a room is better than outside so the pup doesn't associate being put outside to bad behaviour/time out.

My dog honestly was the most gentle, happy and playful pup. To the extent 6 years after she died, I still can't bring myself to get another dog.

And increase your training - 3 to 4 short sharp sessions a day. Pups are like little kids with a short attention span.

Jumping in particular needs firm and consistent approach. Praise and treats when she"s doing the right behaviour, ignore when she isn't.

My pup struggled with jumping and what trained it out of her was whenever she jump, we turned our back to her and ignored her. As soon as the jumping stopped and she sat down, we turned around with lots of positive and happy "sit" "well done" "good girl".

Clicker training is great for helping with consistency when teaching a fast-moving young dog.

Clicker training is great for helping with consistency when teaching a fast-moving young dog.

I agree with this - clicker training is fantastic for getting dogs thinking and focusing on offering you the right behaviour because they have to work out what gets them the click. Have a look for Karen Pryors books on amazon to get you started or kikopup on YouTube.

I'm also currently working on shaping my dog to go to his bed so I've been clicking him for looking at, going towards, stepping on his bed, lying on it. Now I've moved on to delivering his reward to the bed not to his mouth to encourage him to stay there and wait for his treat. It seems to be working great so far but it's very much a work in progress. Absolute dogs have some training courses on boundaries which this comes under. They don't use clickers but you can.

Pat Miller is another great trainer who uses the clicker and has written some very user-friendly stuff.

One thing that happens with clicker training ime is that it alters the mindset of the animal. Instead of looking for opportunities or advantages or excitement off their own bat, they start to realise that they can gain rewards by doing stuff you want them to do. They start voluntarily throwing out things you've taught them to get the clicks. It also changes the way you look at them from criticism or frustration or desperation to a very positive outlook of "catch her being good" and as sch is making for bonding as well as learning.

What is appealing to the dog about the clicker? I don’t really get it. What is it about the clicker that makes them want to do it more? Is it always immediately followed by a treat?

Yes, initially it's immediately followed by a great treat. A bit later you can delay the treat a bit, as the dog will know she'll get it. A bit later on an the treat need not always accompany. And once the move is learned you can stop clicking it, although it's good to keep acknowledging their brilliance occasionally. Plus you can click anything and multiple desired behaviours in one period. It's good for "go lie down" where you're not right beside them and where you don't want to disturb them immediately.

You have to "charge the clicker" before you start trying to train them anything so they associate the click with a reward. So you start just by clicking and immediately treating them several times. When the dog starts looking for the treat when you've clicked, that's when you're ready to start.

You use the clicker to mark the behaviour you want and the dog will remember what it was doing when it heard the click. So say the dog lies down, you click and it immediately jumps up for its treat you still give the treat because what important is what the dog was doing when you clicked - not when you give the treat.

Eventually the dog will start running through its whole repertoire of tricks trying to get you to click, working out for itself what it is you want, you can see their brains in overdrive. Once the dog is reliably offering the behaviour you can add the cue word and phase out the clicker - you won't be forever clicking the dog every time it sits for the rest of its life!

So do you not use commands at all? Like sit, down etc?

Yes, you do. Read up a bit. Karen Pryor and Pat Miller as mentioned upthread would be good to start.
There are lots of resources available on dog training, how to sort out common problems etc.

@3AndADog

So do you not use commands at all? Like sit, down etc?

Not at first, no. The idea is to use the clicker to mark the wanted behaviour, and then add a command in later.

So, to train "sit", many trainers will just kneel on the floor in front of the dog with a treat in their hand and do nothing else. The dog will then try and figure out how to get the treat - they'll paw at it, bark perhaps, back away, lie down...as soon as they sit, you click to mark the behaviour and then treat to reward.

The dog then learns that if you hold a treat in your hand and they sit, they get the treat. So sitting = treat. Then, when they sit next time, you click and say "sit", then treat. Eventually, they learn that the word "sit" means "put your bottom on the floor" and you can eventually phase out the clicker and the treat.

Dealing with Mouthing behaviour is something I dealt with on the first couple of days home.
I sat on the floor with him with a bit of his food or chicken or turkey and kept it in my fist. He sniffed and tried to get it, but as soon as he left it ( let the puppy work out how to get it), I said good, and let him have it. Keep practicing and then introduce the word " leave". I only ever rewarded when his mouth left my hand. Then gave him a toy to chew with lots of praise.
He stopped mouthing about 12 weeks old. You can still do this with older pups.

I have been doing lots of training and she’s great at lots of things, I just didn’t know anything about clicker training. Presumably if she sits/comes/spins etc on demand I wouldn’t need to go back to basics with the clicker? Really what I need to work on is mouthing, settle, and jumping up at things/people.
Thanks for all the advice. I’ll research clicker training.

Really what I need to work on is mouthing, settle, and jumping up at things/people.

Mouthing and jumping are both things that require the same approach from everyone, or it just won't work.

So if she jumps you must ignore her. No eye contact, no verbal commands, nothing. You ignore her completely until all four paws are on the floor, THEN you can praise her and tell her good girl. If you give her any attention for jumping, you're rewarding the behaviour and she'll keep doing it.

Dogs learn by repetition. So, if jumping up sometimes gets her fuss and attention, she'll keep trying to jump in case she gets attention. The only thing to do is ensure she never gets attention for it.

The same goes for mouthing. Remove your hand and step away from her - no attention at all. No squeaking, don't say "ouch" - just teach her that mouthing means she gets nothing from you. If you make it rewarding for her in any way, she's going to keep doing it.

So we haven’t had any more growling andI’ve been working on ignoring jumping up and praising when she is down. And walking away as soon as she starts mouthing. But yesterday she did something that worried me a bit.
She had a tin of lip balm she shouldn’t have had and it slid under the sofa right to the back. My son held her back with the collar while I moved the sofa out to get it, and she turned her head and nipped him on the wrist. I don’t think it really hurt but it was a reaction and a bite at the end of the day. I’m so upset and worried about this. She’s still very young - not quite 6 months - but I can’t help be a bit anxious about this.

Is this a bad sign?
She is also quite mouthy when I put on her harness, or drying her feet with a towel, although she doesn’t seem angry about it particularly.

We had a bit of this sort of mouthing when our puppy was younger. I taught her “gentle”. Basically if I have treats in my hand and try to stroke her she turns her head to do a little air nip as if to say “stop it I am waiting for my treat” but I made her let me to a little stroke and said “gently” she had to wait til I gave her her treat. I don’t know if this is the “right” thing to do but it did teach her the meaning of gently and that teeth weren’t supposed to try and contact skin. And that there is no need for an overreaction just cos someone is touching her.

Also when putting on collar she has to sit nicely for it and let me do it then gets a treat as reward at the end. She doesn’t really like it but she knows if she sits nicely she gets the treat. I built up from touching her collar or area where her collar would be and saying “collar” then getting a treat for letting me do that.

For my puppy it wasn’t agressiveness and she just hadn’t learnt manners.

Her behaviour with the nip sounds totally normal - would you like to be grabbed and held by your neck like that?

If you want her out of the way, lure her out of the room with a treat or toy and close her away safely behind a door or baby gate, then go to get the item. Don't grab her collar and hold her back with it - it puts too much pressure on their neck for one thing.

You need to seek professional advice, not follow several different methods from a parenting forum.

As advised by a PP join "Dog Training Advice and Support" on Facebook - it is free and has 281k members. It is NOT a forum and you will be given advice from a force-free expert. There are also many, many useful guides.

Your puppy did not like being restrained by your child and probably gave many subtle warning signs which were ignored, or simply not spotted. Dogs are absolute experts at body language! A head bob, side eye, looking or turning away, a lip lick are all subtle messages and can be missed, especially by children.

I implore you to join the FB group for decent advice and steps to follow. Good luck!

I follow the group but can’t/won’t post on any social media so fb group only limited use. I have a trainer but I’m not 100% convinced that she’s accredited and I can’t speak to her for the next week or so so I wanted to just get some opinions on here to calm myself down a bit.

I am sure if you search the group you'll find similar posts asking about growling/snapping/potential resource guarding.

You are wise to be wary of your trainer. A good person to follow on insta (if you have it) is Louise Glazebrook.

You are right to worry and right to want to get it sorted but these things generally aren't a quick fix. Never punish your dog for communicating with you - they can't talk to us any other way.